I seriously cannot have any degree of nuanced conversation here.
Like I get it, we all know capitalism is bad, but it feels like every time I or anyone go towards discussing the steps that need to be taken to address current looming problems in the short term, someone has to jump in and shut it down with "capitalism bad >:[ " and tear down any idea presented because its not complete and total destruction of the current economic model.
The result just feels like an echo chamber where no actual solutions get presented other than someone posting whole ass dissertations on their 33-step (where 30/33 steps are about as vague as “we’ll just handle it”) plan to fully convert the world to an anarchist commune.
Edit: I still vastly prefer Lemmy and the fediverse and a whole, my complaint here is that many of you are TOO INTENSE. You blow up small scale discussion.
Welcome to the Internet? It’s not just Lemmy lol
Agree. Reddit was the same thing if not worse. Nuance is [apparently] dead and if you do not explain everything from the dawn of Man to cover your thought, people pick the comment apart like carrion as if you’ve never thought about anything deeply before. They might even gloss over things you did say and attempt to invalidate or discredit your post because only they hold the Truth of the Internet handed down from the Elders. It can be a bit frustrating.
Did you even consider vegans don’t eat decaying flesh? You cant just hold everyone to your standards. I’m not even going to bother reading the rest of what you wrote because you’re so fundamentally wrong already that I’m confident i can stop there and not miss anything of substance.
Also happens all the time irl
IMO, it’s anywhere that has a voting system in place. Every forum has a hivemind, but the hivemind is especially reinforced when fake Internet points are at stake. That, and moderators yanking comments they don’t agree with.
Its not about the points, its about the weighted value.
Higher point posts go up higher snd are seen by more people. Lowering posts makes them less prominent.
You can go for a system of whoever posts first gets their comment to be first, leading to people rushing low quality crap to be at the top. Or most recent comment first, giving you a shit experience like browsing a discord for information. Or random post order, where high quality content gets buried under a sea of shit.
Ranked voting is the best option we’ve found that works online so far.
Personally I downvote shit all the time if i feel its not more worthy than other content. Everyone should be judging posts according to their own metric so we can average out content across a communities views.
The system was a lot more useful when it showed up votes and downvotes separately. I was stoked when Lemmy came out and that was the default display. Now they seem to have removed that even as a user config option, which is very disappointing. People perceive something with 20 downvotes very differently than they do something with 380 upvotes and 400 downvotes. Showing an average skews people’s perception and helps create a hive mind response approach. People don’t want to reply if their reply might be controversial, because it looks like they’re just being shouted down. And then people who agree don’t want to respond and say they agree, or they’re just jumping into the fire with the first person.
I 100% agree that this is how it should work, and it doe work in more objective communities, particularly tech-oriented ones such as troubleshooting. The issue lies in subjective conversations, where people are debating their opinions, especially politics.
If the vote counts were hidden, it likely wouldn’t be an issue. But in practice, it turns conversations into an opinion popularity contest if the topic is of a more subjective nature (I’m right, you’re wrong, yada yada).
The other important metric to this is that a significant number of people simply lurk with no interaction whatsoever. While participation is key to determine a proper weighting of content quality, it’s not like there’s a mechanism for forcing participation. And if there was, a good number of people probably wouldn’t even bother if there were such a requirement. Ultimately with link aggregators and microblogging, people just want to consume content (including comments) while keeping to themselves.
I was really hoping we’d leave that behind when we stopped totalling them up.
Both the web interface and various apps still have the functionality in place (though I think the individual user can disable it). I think that since a lot of Lemmy users are reddit refugees, the mentality carried over unfortunately. That said, hiveminds and echo chambers are kind of human nature, so it’s pretty hard to escape; ultimately it’s on the individual to either fall in line or ignore it.
The Boost for Lemmy app still gives you your total “karma” score for some reason
You need some way to order stuff. How would you prefer to order content if not by votes? Isn’t votes at least a somewhat democratic way to do it? And much like democracy, it might not be great but I have no better ideas.
And as case in point, some dickhole already felt the need to apply one downvote to your very factual comment.
It is quite often that responses seem to come from school age children who just discovered [insert edgy counter-culture ideology], and all of their responses and world views revolve around a rudimentary desire for that ideological utopia, with very little consideration given to sociology or economics. I suppose that is actually who’s responding a lot of the time. All real world considerations are discarded, and any issues you identify are perceived as stupid/shill/Trumper/dummy/capitalist drivel with zero consideration given.
Theres truth to this but I think the general sentiment is archaic and overblown to the point it’s almost anachronistic.
It used to be that cohorts would grow more conservative as they aged - trying to keep everything like they know, essentially. This was true when we built societies that allowed generations to prosper.
We don’t see that seismic shift in millennials or the older zoomers. We see the opposite. Millennials onward are actively moving further left, not just appearing further left because the Overton window has shifted. If anything, the window shifting, casting those in the center as “left”, hasn’t pulled the left to center, but the other way around. It’s pushed the center to be more open to the lefts ideas. The left still convulses at the centers ideas, trust me (like student loans).
This is one of those opinions that everyone likes to assume is part of the silent majority but there’s just not that as much evidence to back up the confidence in which it’s announced - which, remember this, is 100% the main tactic of those in the center. This is the “end of history”, everything’s figured out, inability to see beyond themselves that makes leftists say neoliberalism (the prevailing media world view, center-right) is a cult or that liberalism is a mental illness -the former I agree with, the latter I do not.
Once this tone is dropped, its a mine field of red flags representing the death of nuance, that we’ve reached the limits of their rationality and critical thinking.
Just like breaking thru the rights MAGA cult, breaking the centers techno authoritarianism is like explaining 3D to Flatlanders. And if that sounds like gobbledygook to you, you’ve either been completely sheltered (and in that case, buckle up, things are waaaay worse than you were told growing up) or you’re fully indoctrinated into either ideologue. Blinders on. Kamakazi away.
Makes sense. !askmenover30@lemm.ee is getting a bit more active lately, might be a community for that age range
I find Lemmy significantly worse than reddit was in this regard. The number of times I’ve had my different (not unpopular outside of lemmy) opinion met immediately with personal insults is way higher here in the few months I’ve been here than my years with reddit.
I’ve just been learning not to engage on any of the lemmy propaganda areas, and that leaves me with a lot less active communities.
I agree, and attribute that to the kind of people who would boycott Reddit forever, where the largest part of the lemmy population seems to originate from.
As much as I roll my eyes at the overuse of the term, lemmy is mostly comprised of the "woke"est of the reddit population.
Lemmy is less ban happy than reddit, so I don’t mind throwing down in the comments. Do your part, fight against stupidity.
Reddit will ban you from some subs just for commenting in other subs, no way it’s as bad here
Sure, but have you tried using Linux, going vegan and guillotining billionaires?
I’d just like to interject for a moment. What you’re refering to as FOSS, is in fact, GNU/OSS, or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Open Source Software. OSS is not freedom unto itself, but rather a less free component of a fully functioning GNU/OSS system made more free by the GNU GPL.
Many computer users run a restricted-freedom version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called FOSS, and many of its users are not aware that it is only free as far as it is GPL, developed by the GNU Project.
There really is a GNU, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. GNU is core freedom: the program in the system that allocates copyleft in the legal system. Open source is an essential part of GNU software, but openness is useless by itself; it can only achieve freedom in the presence of copyleft. OSS is normally used in combination with the GNU software, or other GPL software, the whole system is basically GNU with OSS added, or GNU/OSS. All the so-called FOSS distributions are really distributions of GNU/OSS!
Like I get it, we all know capitalism is bad, but it feels like every time I or anyone go towards discussing the steps that need to be taken to address current looming problems in the short term, someone has to jump in and shut it down with "capitalism bad >:[ " and tear down any idea presented because its not complete and total destruction of the current economic model.
That is literally why my instance finally defederated from .ml Every 3rd comment from someone there was exactly that regardless of what community you were in. It was exhausting. Lemmygrad and Hexbear were already blocked here, and once the .ml peanut gallery was gone, it was like “wow, this is kind of enjoyable again”.
Do I miss a few FOSS communities that were more active there than their counterparts elsewhere? Yeah, a little. But, overall, the experience is just so much better after they were blocked. It’s not even that I really disagree with them on everything, it’s just…STFU already, stop brigading, and maybe say something constructive for once.
