84 points

I paid a credit card down from $1700 to $1200. My score went from 795 to 763. Fuck 'em and their fake money.

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-19 points

You’re still carrying a balance of $1200 though. Pay it off and it should go up.

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15 points

Or, hear me out, he could go all Tyler Durden.

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-2 points

That’s probably not a good long term decision.

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26 points
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Believe it or not, it is better for your credit score to carry a low balance on your credit accounts than no balance, because glue tastes yummy to the credit agencies, I assume. /s

The reality is that lenders would rather have customers that utilize their credit and pay a lot of interest than ones that aren’t lucrative and pay off their credit use immediately. They’re looking for people willing to fall into debt traps that are ALSO able to reliably pay the interest within them without ever defaulting. That is what a perfect customer/capital battery looks like to consumer lenders.

Which means that credit scores are just an arcane measure to determine the potential profitability of borrowers, NOT a metric of the most responsible borrowers at all, because that would mean utilizing the least credit.

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28 points

it is better for your credit score to carry a low balance on your credit accounts than no balance

That’s a myth that credit providers like to persist because it tricks people into paying interest. Pay off your credit card every month, don’t carry a balance, and use less than 30% of your available credit. That’s what’s best for your credit score.

Please don’t spread that myth. You’re literally helping people fall for the trap you’re complaining about.

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-1 points

You only need a balance on the day the company reports to the credit bureaus. They have to and will tell you the day they do this. You can buy something the day before and pay it off the dat after and never have a balance on your statement and still appear to be using credit.

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5 points

It won’t, necessarily. They don’t want people who will pay off their debt, they don’t make money off of interest if you pay your debt off. They want people constantly in debt making monthly payments.

Source: I paid off lots of debt and my score plummeted.

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3 points
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Your score could have gone down because closing the account effected the length of your credit history, or because the credit mix (types of accounts) was changed, or because the account showed the entire loan amount as available credit which was removed when the account was closed. Yes they make money off of people who carry some balance but they track credit scores to attempt to predict whether a person will repay credit that is offered to them.

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23 points
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Credit history length was shortened, lowering the score. Just give it another 5-7 years it’ll build back up!

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257 points

They’re not even subtle about it. The system directly rewards you for being in enough debt to always be paying someone interest but not enough that you might file for bankruptcy.

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13 points

I should partner up with someone who does that while I do the consistent thing and we cover each other.

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4 points

Wait.

That’s illegal.

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2 points

Is it? Why?

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103 points
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You don’t have to be in debt, but you do need open credit lines. Having debt on them actually makes your score worse.

Her score likely went down because she closed out a credit line, i.e the open loan, so technically the “i have an open 5yr loan ive been paying on diligently” is no longer part of her score. The fact that she did pay it off is part of that score, but its weighted differently.

If she instead had 40k of credit cards she had open for 5yrs, with zero debt on them, her score would have gone up. Just having the account open, even not using them, shows a high “credit to debt usage” ratio and “a long time open loan.” Both of those make up about 45% of your “credit score.”

So no, you dont have to use a CC every month to keep a high credit score. If you want a high score, you want to open a credit card or 2 for their max value until you get about 30k-40k of total credit, and then don’t use them at all. Not a bit. Never close them. The “long time accounts” + “high amount of debt not in use” + “never delinquent” is roughly 80% of your score. You can sail into the 700s/800s if you dont have any other credit hit.

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16 points

I don’t know why this dude is getting downvoted. This is basically what I do. And I have a great score.

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22 points
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Yeah I dug into all this a while back while I was trying to raise my score. Turns out the most productive thing I did was just ask my current cards to up my limit. A couple of them doubled, so it dropped my utilization way down, which shot my score way up. I think I was around 675 and went up to 750 just with that trick. I got into the 800s by paying off the credit cards.

Its an annoying metagame you have to play to get the “good interest rates,” but those little tricks can save you a fuckton of money over time.

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4 points

I think the only way we will know this is real is if you post your social security number too. You know, for science.

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28 points

You do have to use them a little bit though. It wasn’t a great surprise to learn that my credit score evaporated right when I was looking to buy a house because a credit card I hadn’t used in 7 years was turned off due to not using it. Having no debt, lots of savings, and decent income apparently counts for nothing.

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1 point

Having no debt,

This is the only part the credit reporting agency sees. In that situation they have to make the lending score base on your history, which tells them nothing of your current situation.

lots of savings, and decent income apparently counts for nothing.

The credit reporting agencies don’t see any of this. There is no component in a credit score for your savings or income.

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8 points

So I should get five more credit cards and not use them?

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10 points

I feel like you meant this sarcastically, but the answer is probably yes.

The trick is to not use them though, which so many seem to struggle with. If you’re someone who struggles to manage debt, then getting more credit cards WILL BE DISASTEROUS.

So, sounds like a skill issue /s

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112 points
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While this is all technically correct it’s still dogshit that your score goes down when you do the thing you are supposed to do with a loan.

Your options are:

Take out a loan and pay it off: score goes down

Take out a loan and don’t pay it off/default: score goes down

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4 points

Your second option is 2 options. You dont need to default, just never finish paying it off.

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45 points

Remember that your credit score doesn’t exist for you. It’s not for your benefit. It’s for the benefit of lenders, and they don’t give a damn how unfair the system is.

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13 points

Seriously. “I rarely take on debt, regularly save aggressively, and pay off my debts as quickly as is convenient” means I’m bad to loan to in their eyes when if you had evidence of all that as an ordinary person I’m exactly who you’d want to loan money to.

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1 point

I’m not American, but a credit card means that you owe a bank money, right? If I owe my friend money I’m in debt with him. How is having a credit card not being in debt?

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3 points

Just having a credit card doesn’t mean you’re in debt. Its a line of credit. You can choose to use it and carry debt, but there’s no requirement you do so. The long term consequence is that a bank may choose to close your credit card account if you don’t use it for a long time. The shortest time I’ve had a bank threaten to close an unused card of mine was 5 years. Even then, you can by a $5 sandwich on the card, pay it off immediately, and reset that timer of non-use for another 5 years in that case. I have other cards I haven’t used for 15 years and the accounts are still active.

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62 points
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The credit score is based on how much money the banks think they can make off of you, not your moral standing.

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2 points

Yes, lenders lend to make money.

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11 points

The system directly rewards you for being in enough debt to always be paying someone interest but not enough that you might file for bankruptcy.

The only interest I pay is a mortgage, but my score is over 800. It must be rewarding for something else too.

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-5 points

It’s been a bit since I took personal finance, but I think it takes into account your assets too.

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11 points

Sorry for the negative vote, but credit score does not take into account your assets. I just dont want folks to think that might be the case. Personal assets will come into play when a creditor considers you for a loan/line of credit/etc along side your actual credit score.

Edit: Well. This is turning into a wall of text.

Credit score is based on several things:

  • Ratio of debt available to debt used. I’m trying to remember where the sweet spot is, but it’s somewhere around 10% to 20%. If your credit cards have a cumulative limit of $20k, aim for a maximum use of $2-4k. Pay off your previous balance so you don’t get hit with interest and you’ll gain credit.

  • On time payments. At the very least, pay the minimum each month, but really one should be budgeting to pay it off each month to avoid interest.

  • Oldest account. I don’t like or use my first credit card, but I still have it. Note: cards must be used periodically to keep them active otherwise they won’t be considered, I want to say every 3 months. So even for my oldest card, I have a small subscription on it that hits monthly. This gives me an active, old credit line.

  • There are “good” forms of debt where on time payments is the name of the game. These are car loans, mortgages, etc. If you have the resources, set up auto pay on these so you never have to worry. Paying them off asap will save you on interest, but it could harm your credit as that is no longer an active line. It’s likely still in one’s benefit to pay them off, but then we get into a discussion of interest vs cost of money. That’s a different rabbit hole.

Uh, there’s other stuff, but my thumbs are tired. Hope this helps someone.

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7 points

Same, mostly. Use the credit card for the cash back and points. Pay the balance off every month. Only things I pay interest on is my mortgage and car.

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5 points

To play devil’s advocate, I wouldn’t trust a parachute that’s never been deployed or one that’s deployed every day for the last year. I want the parachute that was used maybe a dozen times over the last few months so that it’s not brand new but not overused so I know it works but isn’t a significant risk.

I have no idea how to calculate reliability, that’s just what monke brain thinks.

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1 point
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Deleted by creator
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4 points
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Not sure what her financial situation is, but if the loan on her car was the oldest thing on her credit report paying it off will lower the average age of her credit history and that can lower your score.

If she had a credit card that was opened before she got the car loan and never missed a payment on the credit card, paying of the car would have raised her average credit history and raised her score.

It’s not some secret how this stuff works, Credit Karma tells you all this.

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8 points

It’s stills a fucking dumb system that control a big part of our life, like buying a house for example.

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15 points

You understsnd that we all know how it works, that doesn’t mean it’s any less hokey or bullshit.

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0 points

What? Most of the posts in this thread show that you all DON’T know how it works

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7 points

Why would paying something off lower your credit score though? You should be rewarded for that lmfao.

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2 points

you misunderstand the function of the score. it’s not a score that tracks how reliably you pay back your debts, it’s a score that tracks how profitable you are as a debtor. someone who pays it all back before masses of interest can accumulate is not profitable. someone who doesn’t pay it back and drowns in the interest is also not profitable. the best scores are for the people in between, who make the creditors lots and lots of money consistently.

It’s for this reason that “building credit” over time is ridiculously easy if you game it properly - it’s basically pay to win. the more consistently you pay interest but without looking like you’re drowning, the happier they are. it’s why having some utilization gets you better scores than paying everything off completely and having 0 utilization every month.

i agree it’s very stupid in terms of incentivization and think it’s probably the worst measure of social value we could have arrived at.

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2 points

Nah, the system is fucked, I understand how it works, but it’s not how it should work.

But thanks.

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20 points

I’d say inb4 someone high on copium tries to justify it, but I’m already too late.

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10 points

Some people love taking time out of their day to type out at least one full paragraph on why this is okay and makes sense! When we know it doesn’t, but they sure try their darndest to justify it.

What a waste of time and nonsense.

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-11 points
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Tell ya what, I got a plan! We go back to the way it was before credit scores. If you’re white, socially acceptable, know your banker and are a deacon in your church, you’re approved!

“nOt LikE thAT!”

Children: I don’t understand how this works so it’s unfair!

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12 points

Just because the old system was worse does not mean we can’t have better than the current system.

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11 points
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Normal countries don’t have credit scores. It’s once again a US-only problem.

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-1 points

Lmao what? I’m from a third world country and credit score is a thing here.

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2 points

Wait… Seriously?

I knew it was ridiculous (literally two companies who assign you a numeric value in an arbitrary range and refuse to elaborate why)

But I never considered other places not having some version of this, probably run by the government (or are just using ours)

Can you walk me through how getting a loan works? Let’s say a home loan, what would they ask and what decides the terms you get?

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