Hi! Long time lurker, first time poster. Been discussing stuff with MLs of all stripes recently, and have come across a common statement used by a lot of Maoists which frustrates me.
They seem to always fall back on statements like “The CPC allows billionaires in their ranks, so they are revisionist.”
Maoists have often used this as a kind of “gotcha” argument against more traditional MLs, or “Dengists” as they love to label us.
It’s frustrating, because…I don’t disagree really, allowing members of the bourgeoisie to hold political power is pretty much the definition of revisionism. The problem is, this feels more like a way to silence dissent or discussion rather than facilitate it. Feels like an overly simplistic hard line that simplifies history into binary divisions. Often followed by an implied “China is revisionist, therefore Maoism is the only working form of socialism.”
I’m reaching out to people to see if anyone has any ways to combat this, in a way that encourages discussion rather than it just devolving into insults or truisms hurled back and forth without thought.
China is kinda revisionist. It is making a gamble through its special economic zones and embedding in global capital, and there are real fights among those with power about which direction(s) to go. There are even neoliberals, usually Western-trained, vying for power and influence over policy. Under Xi, many of these elements have been weakened, but hardly totally. There are also various kinds of communist there all pulling in other directions.
On the plus side, the gamble is working out pretty great so far. The need to reign in the great satan is paramount and China is doing that. The communist party also has primary control over the country, including making sweeping decisions about whole sectors and preventing the takeover of finance capital (it really needs to do even more on that, though).
Anyways revisionism tends to be a silly word. Orthodoxy doesn’t matter, only accurate analysis and socialist revolution matter (in that domain). The conditions of countries all over the planet would require “revisionism” for any real revolution to happen there and Mao was called a revisionist in his time. Building revolution primarily from the peasantry was a big deal, quite different from other folks who had tried purist approaches of building the proletarian class up first (including a similar suggestion by the USSR itself that this is how revolution must develop in China).
The key to a healthy perspective on revisionism is really just whether someone, or some project, is incorrect. Whether they understand their country, the people, the material base, and can apply Marxist theory nevertheless to reach truth.
Oh for sure, there is a discussion to be had about China, I don’t really know of anyone who isn’t just a Chinese nationalist that would say China hasn’t deviated from a pure socialist path. But like you’ve said, it’s a gamble, one that seems to be paying off for them. Though time will tell if it actually does, or if they end up going the way of the USSR.
I was more pointing out the tendency (at least in my experience with them) for (online) Maoists to basically just behave like left-coms when it comes to China, just declaring them “revisionist” and stopping their investigation there. Simply ignoring their historical material conditions and insisting China was perfectly fine before evil revisionist Deng came to power like an evil dictator. They do the work of the US state department for them half the time.
People who start and end the conversation on China with a one-liner like that aren’t really part of a Maoist program either, since they should be explaining themselves and trying to recruit. Instead, they are employing a conversation-stopper, which will really just be a way to feel good about themselves, or to protect themselves.
If they’re even Maoists, they’re not very good ones.
Hence why I put the (online) bit there. I’ve had solid conversations with Maoists about China, where we can recognise the same positives and negatives, but ultimately feel differently about the nation.
But a lot of terminally online Maoists tend to just be exactly what you’re talking about. People who are just trying to jerk themselves off over how much better they are than revisionist MLs. Obviously, this isn’t exclusive to Maoists either. It’s a tendency amongst all of the online left really, where those who need to “touch grass” really badly tend to be overly humourless and demand others accept their position without question. I welcome people making fun of MLs, something like: “No you don’t understand, the billionaires are just there for the productive forces you guys! Seriously, it’s all part of the plan! Just trust us!”
I don’t really trust anyone who can’t handle people making fun of their own position, if they take themselves too seriously they’ll never convince anyone. People don’t want to join an ideology that requires a stick to be installed up their ass.
One of the stars on the PRC’s flag is for the petite bourgeoisie. It’s a continuation of new democracy (https://en.prolewiki.org/wiki/New_Democracy) started under Mao.
Maoists don’t care about any of this, yesterday I had one tell me Chinese people were “literally fleeing” the countryside after the communes were disbanded. When I pointed out they were now staying in the countryside (since at least 2018) because the level of development was catching up to that of the cities, they suddenly disengaged.
@DamarcusArt I’m curious, have you really learned about China?Since its establishment, the People’s Republic of China has been a monster mixed with the idea of an autocratic monarchy.
@DamarcusArt China has never been communism, and there is no possibility of revisionism.
The wierd thing with this argument is that there isn’t even a clear contradiction with the very basis of Mao’s action and theory. Just look at the flag of the PRC : it is a reference to a speech where Mao defines the four classes of Chinese society that converges towards the Party (hence the four stars pointing at one big star). Those four classes are, obviously the proletariat and peasantry, but also the urban bourgeoisie and the national bourgeoisie. Note that there is no ambiguity on what bourgeoisie means here, since there is two dedicated stars to include both the intellectual and cultural elite but also the national-level property owners.
If the national bourgeoisie is represented on the flag of the PRC as a class that is united with the others around the Party then why would they be barred from entering the party like every citizen who’s able to pass the test.
Mao was never about pressing the Communism button and destroying the national bourgeoisie, he was about building the ship that will eventually lead the people to Communism after a long trip where the national bourgeoisie has a role to play.
A rule of thumb is to look at Deng vs Gorby.
Deng’s reforms are actually less drastic compared to Gorby’s. What Gorby did was essentially fuck the country over and let the boojees run amok. Deng on the other hand said “hey, you boojeee scum can exist for now. But cross the line and you’re fucked”
