I gave up on finishing those books years ago. It’s been long enough I hardly remember what happened in the last one and the next one isn’t even on the horizon as far as I can tell. It’s not happening.
I’ve been telling people this since somewhere around 2014/2015 when I read the third book. The first two books were well thought out, the plot moved, the exposition had purpose and was driving toward something. While I was about 2/3 of the way through the book I realized that it felt like GRRM had changed his mind about what he wanted to do with the story. The book no longer seemed focused on a destination, it seemed focused on moving characters around so that he could make something different work instead. But doing that new thing meant killing off 75% of the characters he’d spent two books developing, so he had to replace them with new ones, who were less developed, kind of cardboard cutouts of the previous ones. But now these new characters stories needed to be fleshed out so he could make their involvement make sense. In doing that he realized he couldn’t slot them in to accomplish the goals he needed to complete the story. So he kept expanding the web, expanding the universe, but never really having a plan or path in place to make it all come back together. And that’s where he’s been for over a decade.
He hasn’t finished the books because he doesn’t know how to at this point. He can’t get everything tied together, he can’t go back to the story he wanted to tell because he killed off pieces necessary to make it happen, and the replacements didn’t fit where he needed them to.
I stopped reading after the third book too, and that’s exactly the sense I got.
There’s no conclusions, just character deaths. It’s just an unraveling web that becomes less and less coherent the further it goes.
I’ve read all of them, though not very closely. Unless it was one of a handful of important characters by the 4th book I had absolutely no clue who anybody was. Names kept getting dropped like I’m supposed to know who this person is but there are so goddamn many it’s impossible to keep track.
The last two books are like 3/4s just moving people around, and literally everything interesting that happens happens in the last 250-300 pages or so.
This is why I just do not buy any story that’s unfinished.
As sad as it is, no matter how cool Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth looks, I just can’t emotionally bring myself into it knowing it could be another Kingdom Hearts 3 “we don’t know where we’re going” ending. Even my childhood classic Half-Life both couldn’t commit to an ending, and when their writer frustratedly uploaded “fanfiction” of its ending, it basically ended on a Cthulu Mythos style downer.
From now on, I’m only getting into stories if I can see a review that says “It ended very well!” not “I can’t wait to see what happens next.”
The only author I feel comfortable reading an unfinished series by is Brandon Sanderson. But that’s just because the dude can write two books in the time it takes me to read one.
Edit: Son of a bitch, he wrote another book while I was writing that comment. Skip to the very end for new book announcement
Legit.
I’m so sick of the ‘big twist’ ending where something ‘unexpected’ happens or it leaves it ambiguous, just give us closure.
The ending to Hot Fuzz is perfect. It answers questions, doesn’t stick around too long and ties up all the loose ends, while still being open-ended and leaving it to the viewer to conjure what happens next.
You may be on to something. The whole thing could have wrapped up at the end of the red wedding with Dany invading and taking over a broken kingdom, and then Lysa Arryn could have released she was behind it all with Little finger to the world and everyone would have realized it was all a big misunderstanding. That was probably as far as GRRM planned out initially. It also explains why thr White Walkers seemed to slow down after the fist of the first men.
My theory is he actually helped write the ending of the TV show, and when the fans absolutely despised it, realized he had to scrap his entire ending.
The problem was the execution. A tyrannical Daenarys as the final villain after the White Walkers were defeated makes sense, but she was never actually given the time to be the Mad Queen. She should have gotten a whole season as the big bad after her entire arc from book 1 to present being the buildup to her reign. It’s like they were given the bullet points of the ending and instead of fleshing it out into a proper story, they just used the bullet points as the entire source for the script.
Yeah, it could have been interesting to watch her slow decent into madness, but it was like they crammed all the major plot points into a day or two.
Not that I’m going to watch the last season again to verify, but it felt like she went from savior to genocidal maniac in about 3 minutes of screentime. It was jarring.
This was a show that was totally cool spending 2-3 seasons for a payoff. I can’t believe I’m still upset by how they speedran through everything.
I’m still surprised how GoT was on the forefront of pop culture and within 2 seasons any and all interest was morphed to apathetic disdain. No one really talks about it anymore. It’s only “they fucked up the ending”. Blue balled an entire fandom so bad that it impacted the show runners careers. I’m really hoping HotD brings the fandom back (also, a reboot of the last 2 seasons as a whole new show would be dope)
Fans had been predicting that Dani would have a heel turn since the first book so it’s not like it wasn’t built up. D&D were just admittedly fanboys of the character and white washed her on the TV show so the twist came seemingly out of nowhere.
Edit: Thinking on it a bit more, it’s also in the books favor that we have access to Dani’s internal dialogue. It’s through this that we get a lot of foreshadowing about her future turn, and is definitely a way the books would have handled it better.
I hope not. The ending didn’t suck, the build up did. I can absolutely see dragon girl nuking kings landing but it’ll take more than one episode between “I don’t want to rule over ashes” and her actually ruling over ashes for me to say “yeah I can see how she got there.”
Yep, been saying this for years.
We know he told the show creators huge future plot points. That ending was the ending, it sucked, he’s embarrassed, the series will never be finished.
It was SO bad. My main issue was how they mangled my favorite characters.They made the only protagonist I liked a villain (well besides Margaery, rip). Made her die from the puppy dog Jon Snow, who helped cause BA Ygrittes death because he had no freaking spine. Total insult to my favorite characters.
I will not be reading the book if the ending is the same or similar, which is what brought me to the idea of him holding out because…it was probably the same.
I haven’t watched the new show either, I’m waiting to make sure it’s decent all the way through…if it’s still running? lol.
I disagree, but only because I think I figured out the ending, how GRRM told the show writers, and I can see how they interpreted it.
Possible spoilers: I think Jon is supposed to kill Daenerys and the writers couldn’t figure out why so they just made up dumb shit. But the reason he kills her is to forge a sword (Lightbringer) to destroy the white walkers. And Daenerys agrees to it.
"To fight the darkness, Azor Ahai needed to forge a hero’s sword. He labored for thirty days and thirty nights until it was done. However, when he went to temper it in water, the sword broke. He was not one to give up easily, so he started over.
The second time he took fifty days and fifty nights to make the sword, even better than the first. To temper it this time, he captured a lion and drove the sword into its heart, but once more the steel shattered.
The third time, with a heavy heart, for he knew beforehand what he must do to finish the blade, he worked for a hundred days and nights until it was finished. This time, he called for his wife, Nissa Nissa, and asked her to bare her breast. He drove his sword into her living heart, her soul combining with the steel of the sword, creating the weapon known as Lightbringer." -Tyrion tells this story in book 2 I believe
“According to prophecy, our champion will be reborn to wake dragons from stone and reforge the great sword Lightbringer that defeated the darkness those thousands of years ago. If the old tales are true, a terrible weapon forged with a loving wife’s heart. Part of me thinks man was well rid of it, but great power requires great sacrifice. That much at least the Lord of Light is clear on.” -Book 2
Yeah and he’s stuck as D&D would narc him out of he changed it now in a desperate attempt to save their tattered reputations.
As others have mentioned Danis heel turn was rushed by also Brans story was also cut short. If they had actually given him the time to have some epic adventures and actually save everyone then may be he could have lived up to Tyron’s billing at the council.
Some of it is also he just doesn’t know when to self edit out the additional pov stories. We should be reducing them as we approach the finish not adding new ones as he has been doing.
Oh man, I totally forgot about the new characters being introduced. He should be killing off the big ones and using one time characters to give more backstory/perspective like that alcoholic Frey with the headaches sent to pay ransom.
He could get out of the mereneese knot by showing POV from different factions how Dany tries to govern, but ppl are assholes and the only way is to rule with an iron hand. Bad things, good intentions blah blah blah. Do everything right and still fuck up.
Similar writers who for some reason are fixated on completing their series in one or two books.
My hot take is it’s this constraint they put on themselves that caused them to feel overwhelmed and lose interest.
See, Rothfuss made a Mary Sue. Since the story is being told by the guy the story is about, after the fact, to someone who the narrator has no respect for, Rothfuss has an out: He can let Kvothe keep telling his story and then out it all as complete bullshit, or he can let it be just an embellished truth and then let us learn exactly why Kvothe is essentially in hiding after living such a fantastical life - either way Kvothe gets his punishment / redemption and we learn about what real tragedies have befallen him. This story is deep and good.
What he cannot do is pretend that all that ACTUALLY happened, and that Kvothe went on to kill a king and retired to an easy life as an in keeper. That story would suck hard ass and make everyone’s eyes roll out of their heads.
I’m convinced he wrote #2 and is basically waffling over how to turn it into #1, or arguing with his publisher over it, because he knows it’s inherently bad.
His latest book, The Narrow Road Between Desires, isn’t written from Kvothe’s perspective though, but has him as a side character and confirms that Kvothe is at least somewhat of a bad ass.
It’s told from the perspective of Bast (Kvothe’s fae apprentice/student, for those of you who haven’t read a Patrick Rothfuss book in the last 13 years). The book basically implies that while Bast has strange magic powers, Kvothe is still the true master. So that basically rules out the idea that Kvothe is telling a complete bullshit story.
The most annoying part is he’s written several books since then, just not in the main story.
He’s probably getting so much done by avoiding working on Winds of Winter.
