Either through memes or comments I keep seeing this sentiment pop-up from time to time. And I’m wondering what your (yes, you) consensus is on it.
I for one am too pessimistic to do anything with potential hints. Like even if there is a good chance I still just don’t want to risk it.
One problem is that it’s very socially unacceptable to mistake not-a-hint for a a hint. Maybe people should stop trying to ‘hint’ and be more direct.
If you get a “hint” wrong you could end up having a meeting with HR, being told to “fuck off, creep”, or some other negative result. So men might see what could be a hint, but the price of getting it wrong is too high for many reasons. So you either stop looking for them or just stop acting on anything that isn’t direct.
It’s also kinda the woman placing the responsibility and the work on the guy for making the “real” moves in an encounter or relationship. He needs to pursue her and pay attention, not the other way around.
I would also add there is an element of the expected pursuit of the woman after she has said no. Like, no means try harder. I think it’s a good thing that a guy (or whoever) backs off once someone says they aren’t interested. You shouldn’t expect the guy you like to push past the first rejection then call the guy you don’t like a creep for ignoring your no.
Like there isnt decades of movies that hinge on this whole premise too.
Especially in a workplace. If you decide to actually ask out a coworker No doesnt just mean no, no means “be very careful about what you say and how you act towards them for the immediate future in case they take something you say or do as a further advance and decide to report you to HR. Or decide that you are now treating them poorly because they rejected you and decide to report you to HR.”
Just to be clear, these arent the ONLY outcomes and yes are extreme but I have seen both happen first hand.
Regardless of any other fallout, I’d rather be someone women feel comfortable around, not someone they think “oh jeez, I have to be sure not to give any indication he might read as flirting.”
It’s common sense not to flirt at your job. You say something like “I’m going to the Flaming Donkey for a few drinks around 8 PM. Drop by if you want.” If he or she doesn’t show, then that’s it.
I’m an autistic woman, and I’ve found great success in leaning into my autistic tendencies. By that, I mean just being blunt and upfront. One of my favourites is that if I’ve got chemistry with someone I don’t expect to see again, before I bid them farewell, I’ll give them a note with my number on and say something like “I had a great time hanging out with you tonight, would you like to go on a date with me sometime?” And then I hand them my number and scuttle off like a crab because I can only put on a cool face for so long before I crack under the anxiety.
Aspie man here, it’s harder for us to do that. I have a friend who I gave the standard, “Hi, my name is MapleEngineer and I have Asperger’s. That means…” speech to when I thought she was hinting. She said, “Ok, you don’t like hints?” “No.” “Ok. I’ve always found you attractive and have fantasized about sucking your cock. We should get together.” We did. It was awesome.
Life would be so by easier if the normies didn’t muddy the waters so much with their hints and clues.
Oh yeah, it’s why I mentioned I’m a woman - it’s certainly relevant to my experience here. I don’t have to worry about being perceived as threatening - if I flirt with a woman in an upfront way like I described, I never feel like there’s a risk of frightening her. Whereas on the flip side, if a guy asks me out, I’m always a bit on edge because of the small minority who are not safe to politely turn down. “Privilege” is definitely the wrong word for this, but being perceived as non threatening does make some things simpler.
I have been accused of being incredibly dense because I mask by playing all new relationships with women as completely natural. The woman I mentioned in my comment was hinting hard but I played it neutral. After I had a couple of hours to think about it I went back and said, “I have Asperger’s and here’s what that means. Here’s what masking is. I mask by playing hard neutral. I think you might be hinting. Hinting doesn’t work with me. If you’re hinting you need to stop and just say or ask what you want to say or ask. I won’t be offended. I will probably say, ‘Yes’ (I’m a sexy Aspie and I always say, ‘Yes’. )” So she just asked, I said, “Yes” and we had a good time. She told me that she had always found me and my attitude toward sex very appealing but thought I didn’t like her because I never flirted or expressed any interest. She said that in the almost 15 years we had been acquainted I had never even touched her. I said I thought it would be fun if the first time we touched was a kiss. The first time we touched it was a kiss. Now I’m waiting to find out if she’s going to go with me on a short road trip with one or two nights in a nice hotel this weekend.
I’m male, and bi. I’m about equally bad at picking up on hints from men and women, but it seems more common with men to just flat out state what they want, either immediately, or after I miss their clue, which I’d presume to be cultural.
I’m bad with social clues in general, so I dunno if it’s a male-thing, or a me-thing.
@VeganCheesecake It’s a bit of both. I think the relevant concept here is Ask Culture versus Guess Culture.
I’m not sure if @FatTony is talking about romantic hints or all hints, but I think in many cultures women are socialised to be little a bit more Guess Culture than men, even if it doesn’t come naturally. The same goes for LGBTQ+ in cultures that are repressive. And of course some nationalities tend towards one or the other.
As someone whose natural state is very Ask, I found this concept really helpful. Sometimes I straight out ask the Guess people if they are hinting to me.
That’s a fun way to put this into concept!
The funny thing is, despite often being bad at ascertaining what is being hinted at, I have very much been raised in a ‘guess’ culture, a family that found itself to be very high-brow and fancy, which lasted until the companies went bust, and the debt caught up to them.
Anyway, that leads to me, while having lots of problem with reading ‘guess’ people (unless they grew up in similar circumstances, that usually helps), also apparently being pretty hard to read for many conversation partners.
In the end, I found that jumping over my shadow and just spelling out what I’m trying to say, ask, or think I’m being asked, usually resolves things.
@VeganCheesecake yeah I was raised in a mostly ‘guess’ family as well! They think I’m oafish.
You’re right it does cut both ways. My ‘guess’ ex thought I was super hard to read because they couldn’t grasp that I literally meant exactly what I said not some extra hidden meaning.
These days I’m with another ‘ask’ person so the only stress like that is figuring out what our mothers are trying to get at.
Three things: one woman’s “hint” is another woman’s platonic behavior and “hints” are meant to be subtle so that they provide plausible deniability if there is no interest returned.
Dont blame us for not “getting” hints when part of the point is to be able to easily brush them off as not being signs of romantic interest. If you are interested in a dude, use your words.
And lastly, us not asking a woman out in response to her hints doesn’t necessarily mean we didn’t get the hints. It may just mean we aren’t interested in that particular person and dont want to make it awkward.
Also there’s a lot of flak in our society for men who overstep their bounds. Responding to a hint can also be harassing someone.
