“Every previous president would have ended it by now.”
“Biden literally couldn’t do worse.”
Donald Trump is Genocide at home and abroad.
Joe Biden is “only” Genocide abroad, and probably less of it.
Therefore, a vote for Joe Biden is a Vote against genocide.
No, it doesn’t matter that he’s an active participant in the apparatus that’s creating the genocide, because if he’s in office there’s less genocide. Which is the important part, and pretending otherwise is sophistry. If you abstain from voting, you are increasing the likelihood of more genocide and if you discourage others from voting, you are an active participant in the overall social apparatus that is probabilistically increasing the amount of genocide.
The utility calculation is dead simple: more votes for Biden in key states makes more genocide less likely, and discouraging people from voting for Biden makes more genocide more likely. Therefore, discouraging people from voting for Biden is a pro-genocide strategy and voting for Biden in battleground states is an anti-genocide strategy. You should vote for Biden unless you live in a solid blue state, and even then it’s not a bad idea.
TLDR: if you encourage people to not vote for Biden, that’s supporting genocide. Accelerationism never works for us.
Basically just the trolley problem, but the tracks are already aligned to killing fewer people. There is a vote on whether to divert the trolley to the track which would kill more people or stay the course. Is there blood on your hands if you abstained and convinced others to abstain which resulted in a win for changing tracks?
Let not any one pacify his conscience by the delusion that he can do no harm if he takes no part, and forms no opinion. Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing. He is not a good man who, without a protest, allows wrong to be committed in his name, and with the means which he helps to supply, because he will not trouble himself to use his mind on the subject.
– John Stuart Mill
Be careful, you might have the 5 real users of Lemmy.ml use their 500 accounts to harass you for posting this.
I just blocked the whole instance when they removed my comment pointing out that Al Jazeera might not be unbiased in the matters of Hamas vs Israel, because they are funded by Qatar who also shelter Hamas leaders.
And even Al Jazeera think Trump would be an even bigger fucking disaster for Palestine.
Wait, we can block whole instances ourselves? I think that might be my vest option.
Idk how much i want to do this… ive been followed around by trolls for being vocal, but i wonder if it’s not a good idea to know what their talking points are. Not to mention the possibility of good daith youngins being attracted to their stink needing to hear something not advantageous to hostile foreign powers.
Also i like linux memes. Lots of linux shit is on .ml bc of it supposedly being sooper extra privacy oriented.
Yeah I dunno, I’m still not going to vote for him. Just goes against my conscious
Cool I’ll tell that to my trans friends when Trump tried to pass Floridas laws federally
At least your “conscious” is clear
Cool, when you and your friends band together and vote for someone who’s not apart of the war machine, then you can ride your high horses
Your conscience can be a good indicator that something immoral is happening, but it’s certainly not infallible. While I think abstaining is a worse choice, the most egregious course of action being discussed is actively arguing against voting, which is actively harmful and supports multiple genocides including the one ostensibly being denounced by the people who act as such.
it’s literally double speak: war is peace, voting for genocide is antigenocide.
There are two options: ‘some genocide’, and ‘a lot more genocide’. The race is close, so if not enough people vote for ‘some genocide’, ‘a lot more genocide’ will win. ‘No genocide’ is not one of the options. Do you vote for ‘some genocide’, or do you assent to letting ‘a lot more genocide’ win?
If you spend time with real boots-on-the-ground activism to support and prop up legitimate leftist candidates, policies, and parties in advance of election years, then yeah fine I’ll accept your righteous abstaining from voting the general election.
But if your “protest” begins and ends with choosing to not vote the lesser of two evils while you’re not doing anything to actually upend the system, fuck you. Your ideological purity is causing real world harm while you pout and expect some other magical force to swoop in and save you.
Nobody is coming to save you.
Nobody.
Either put in the fucking work and put in the real effort to change things, or fall in line. As is, you’re just in everyone’s way.
Well put. Thing is, I don’t see people who don’t vote going around telling people not to vote. They usually want nothing to do with an election and don’t like to hear about it either. So I always assume that the people who are telling you not to vote are doing it specifically to discredit whoever runs against Trump. Which makes them either MAGA shills or russian trolls. Both equally bad.
To your first point, unsurprisingly, the boots on the ground folks typically are fans of damage control in the system as it stands in the first place. Turns out allowing the authoritarians to have their way is not the way to effect leftward change in the slightest.
I concur. I wasn’t really speaking to the boots on the ground crowd, I was talking to the “standing in the way” crowd.
Dont worry internet stranger, i caught ur drift, but in times like these u can never do without additional clarification/elaboration. I think it helps if the actual leftists take the effort to distance themselves from any efforts that put Dr. Fascismo in the seat of the most powerful nation in the world.
I’m just to figure out why the Hexbear communities are even federated into some Lemmy instances. They are blatantly racist to users.
“False, you can’t be racist to crackkkers. Also calling for nuking an entire hemisphere of the planet will only bring prosperity to everyone.”
-a hexbear or something idk
Ultimately the problem is Biden choices on Palestine are reprehensible. He doesn’t “deserve” to be president again on that alone. If he was running against someone like mitt Romney , he would be in deep shit, and this discussion would be a total nebulous cloud. (Edit I’m not pro mitt, I’m saying Biden only has a chance because trump is insane.)
Unfortunately, no new candidates are available for this upcoming election.
Trump has made clear his behavior on topics like Palestine, and there are strong inferences to be made.on his potential actions on Ukraine. This is corroborated by government leaders and experts who are already defensively preparing for trump to come fuck their shit up. So that’s foreign policy.
Domestically, Biden is not as egregious a troublemaker. There are SERIOUS issues happening today in America, for which a Biden whitehouse should be doing more. But I think we can agree that trump has both demonstrated in the past, and spoken clearly in the future about the ways he would shift domestic issues for the worse.
So how one votes in the primary is fine, but come the general election, I have not been convinced how abstaining or voting for trump is an appropriate action.
Trump is either as bad, or worse on every topic of significance, and I personally believe America will be drastically worse off with him as president…both domestically and abroad.
Lastly, depending on where you live, abstaining from voting in the general can be very impactful, and may even assist a trump election. It is deeply unsatisfying voting for someone you dislike, with the sole purpose of avoiding someone you hate, but it must be acknowledged.
There was an entertaining little exchange here.
Someone misunderstood math and claimed that more people voted “uncommitted” than had voted for Biden in “last year’s” election.
Someone else explained the misunderstanding, and the real explanation (that the “uncommitted” number was higher than Biden’s margin over Trump, not Biden’s total).
The mod of the liberty place replied “This is a false statement and reeks of debatebro. Please remove this from your comment.”
I’ll let the rest speak for itself; exactly what you think happened happened.
As a mathematician, I find that proficiency in the art and self-consistency tend to be correlated.
It wasn’t a misunderstanding, I just misspoke and I already explained that. This is weird.
Ah yes, “misspoke.”
I kid. What you said sounded fine to me actually; you said something wrong, someone called you out, you said “okay you are right” but defended your overall point which I think was pretty legitimate, there was a little hostility from both sides, the end.
I had nothing to do with the conversation btw, I just observed it. But my comment here was more calling out the mod for telling people directly that they needed to revise their comments to be according to his liking, and deleting them when they weren’t, peeking out from behind a fig-leaf of it being because of the hostility instead of the viewpoint that was being expressed.
