What scares me shitless is the idea that Trump is what the US is and what the US has earned. Who’s ready for that conversation?
100% this. Im German and I feel so strange that americans are choosing this guy for president. Not to be offensive, but damn.
As an American I feel that a majority of Americans loathe him. The issue lies in not all those people vote.
What scares me is that any Americans vote for him. How can you be so blinded and not see what a lying, cheating grifter that he is. The man is not intelligent, doesn’t read, is petty to a fault, vindictive, spiteful, narcissistic, nepotistic and just generally not a good person. Why would you choose that for a leader? It’s because you share those traits. That’s what scares me.
The issue lies in not all those people vote.
Partly. There’s also the issue with the electoral college, because that makes some votes worth more than others (depending on where you live).
I don’t know that they all share those traits per se, but just as damning not only to them but to our culture as well is our tolerance and even expectations that people in charge have those traits. I saw it everywhere when I lived in a deeply conservative small city, anyone with power (including company management) was beyond reproach. The status quo was defended harshly by the overwhelming majority. We have lost our values to greed by using the american dream as a trojan horse full of awful ideals.
No no you don’t understand, I mean, sure the media makes him seem like he has those traits, but he’s really a great guy! I mean I guess it’s been proven he has those traits but who doesn’t right? Isn’t everyone deep down homophobic and racist and misogynist themselves?
And really if you think about it, God can use anything he wants right? So why would he pick the Catholic guy out there trying to invest in America? He definitely wants the guy who most looks like my own deep down beliefs. So no matter what you say, your argument is invalid because God is on my side.
…/s in case that was needed.
The crazy part is they think Biden makes the US look bad. When you present evidence to the contrary they say, "who cares what other countries think. "
My aunt thinks Jill Biden is controlling the country from the shadows and wants to run in place of Joe in 2024. We are fucked
Fellow German and… yeah. People joke about the Hitler comparisons, but you won’t see us laughing. (I mean, in general, but that’s a different topic.)
You should be offensive, we deserve it.
We picked an absolute trash human as our leader, a sizeable portion of which chose him specifically because they wanted him to hurt people (see: “he’s not hurting the right people” woman.) That same group will often cite their desired outcome for any given thing is “to see liberals cry/get mad.”
Hillary Clinton made a mistake by saying it out loud, but she was 100% correct when she said a large portion of Trump supporters are “a basket of deplorables.” They absolutely are and are deserving of scorn.
I just hate how well propaganda works and how much money a random grifting asshole can make by parroting bullshit on YouTube, they boost each other and perpetuate this garbage era we’re going through…
Same here. I think this is what happens when education is underfundet. I’m happy we’re back to G9 but we should definitely pay teachers more to counteract the lack of teachers and ensure every teacher has sufficient time to do their job well.
Otherwise people cannot be taught to think critical, question “why is he saying X?” instead of just weather it is true or not. Often understanding why somebody is saying sometimg at the time they do is much more important after all.
This idea that we are under funded is not true. Per Capita we spend more than every other country on education than any other OECD country besides Luxembourg.
We are number two world wide for funds to education per capita.
Our funding is just wasted and ineffective. We have a cultural problem with education. Not a funding problem.
I was visiting Germany in 2016 during the spring, before the election. Several Europeans, after hearing we were from the US, asked, “What the hell is going on in your country?”
We all should be. But that won’t happen if people go out there and vote, godamnit.
And don’t just vote to keep Trump out.
Vote to keep him and his party out of office.
We don’t get a vote of no confidence. There’s no box to check that says “No Trump”.
Also, Hillary got more votes than Trump did, so simply having more voters on your side doesn’t necessarily mean that Trump will lose.
So … don’t vote? There absolutely is a No Trump voting option - only one - and it’s voting for Biden. There are several Yes Trump voting options: vote for Trump specifically, vote for a third party candidate, or vote for no one. It’s not that complicated.
Do the electoral map and electoral college make this difficult to achieve? Of course. But we can only win if we vote, and are guaranteed to lose if we don’t.
The fascists love voter apathy. Don’t do their job for them.
I never said “Don’t vote”. However, I do think that we should be able to vote “no confidence”, and if “no confidence” wins, they should have to do a while new election with new candidates.
I vote for candidates who offer me something more than “I’m not a fascist”.
There absolutely is a No Trump voting option - only one - and it’s voting for Biden.
Voting for Biden is… voting for Biden. It sounds like you don’t want to improve anything, you just want to avoid it getting worse. Or, at least, have it get worse slower.
True, but remember “did not vote” was higher then either Hillary or Trump first time around.
I was apathetic in 2016, I didn’t care enough to vote for her, or know enough to vote against Trump.
I voted against Trump on 2020, and now I’ve seen enough I will vote for Biden in 2024, assuming he is the nominee. Otherwise, it’s another vote against Trump.
My point is, there was a real disconnect back in 2016, and a lot of people just couldn’t be bothered.
Trumps base has only gotten smaller, but the people who know and want to keep him out has grown. I suspect we will see both significant turn out, and significant voter suppression in 2024.
…didn’t Trump get more votes in 2020 than in 2016? Has his base really gotten smaller?
""In a normal society, a former president—let’s call him Donald Trump—who’s been indicted three times in under four months, on charges ranging from obstruction of justice to conspiracy to defraud the United States, would have absolutely no chance of ever being president again. It straight up would not be a scenario anyone would have to even contemplate; even if this individual were not in prison, the idea that they would be able to run for and win higher office once more would not compute.
But unfortunately, we don’t live in a normal society; instead, we live in a place in which millions of people not only still support Donald Trump, but grow fonder of him with every new criminal charge. Which means that, despite the aforementioned indictments*, the twice-impeached, thrice-indicted ex-president is dominating every other candidate for the Republican nomination, and currently looks to be the most likely GOP nominee in the 2024 general election. That, of course, scares the shit out of a lot of people—including, apparently, one Barack Obama. Whose fear, it has to be said, is extremely unsettling!
The Washington Post reports that during a private lunch with Joe Biden in late June, the 44th president “voiced concern about Donald Trump’s political strengths—including an intensely loyal following, a Trump-friendly conservative media ecosystem, and a polarized country—underlining his worry that Trump could be a more formidable candidate than many Democrats realize.” According to people familiar with the conversation, “Obama made it clear his concerns were not about Biden’s political abilities, but rather a recognition of Trump’s iron grip on the Republican Party.”
Obama’s concerns are certainly warranted: In a New York Times/Siena poll released on Monday, Trump led his closest competition, Ron DeSantis, by a whopping 37 points. An even wilder data point that seems to validate Obama’s fears was that Trump beat DeSantis even among Republicans who believe he committed “serious federal crimes.” To be clear, that means these people believe Trump is a criminal, and want him to be president anyway.
As FiveThirtyEight optimistically notes, should Trump be convicted before November 5, 2024, voters might be less inclined to cast a ballot for him, and presumably they’d be even less so if he’s sentenced to time in prison. (In the case of the most recent indictment, two of the charges carry up to 20 years behind bars, and compared to her colleagues, the judge assigned to the case has imposed the toughest sentences for January 6 defendants.) Though, who knows!
As for a potential Trump-Biden rematch, another Times/Siena Poll poll published this week put the two in a tie, with each receiving 43% of the vote—which, for people who think democracy is worth preserving, is pretty pants-shittingly scary.
In somewhat happier news, Obama reportedly promised at the same June lunch “to do all he could to help the president get reelected.” And in a statement, a spokesman for Biden’s campaign told the Post: “President Biden is grateful for his unwavering support, and looks forward to once again campaigning side-by-side with President Obama to win in 2024 and finish the job for the American people.”
*And everything else!
Mike Pence giveth and Mike Pence taketh away
Yes, he tweeted yesterday that “anyone who puts himself over the Constitution should never be President,” but then he basically suggested today that Trump was just listening to his lawyers’ advice when he tried to overturn the election—which, coincidentally, is a defense Trump is reportedly planning to use."
Honest question, how can we ever get out of this? Is it just human nature for most of the population to not have critical thinking skills? Is it possible to reach a world where the majority of people have even just a little empathy?
It’s just so sad. It’s so clear to anyone even kinda paying attention that we possess the technical capacity as a society to meet everyone’s needs and eliminate so much human-caused suffering at the detriment to absolutely nobody. We could be working toward a society where everyone has community, safety, security, opportunity. We could do so much if all we did was kind of give a shit about each other.
But no. Let’s elect the guy who mocked a disabled reporter, encourages white supremacy, committed treason, etc.
Donald Trump is just a guy. A shitty guy, but just a guy. He’s not what is ruining the world, but the fact that so many Americans want to vote for that shitty guy as president shows that a massive portion of the population is also just some shitty person, and fuck if that doesn’t just burn up all my hope for this world.
Education is the only way to overcome this tsunami of stupidity and misinformation. But it’s slow and costly.
Conservatives with a capital “c” are not brainwashed; they’re not tricked; they’re not progressives who’ve been misinformed. Trump is who they are and what they want.
The Dominion discovery documents demonstrate that Fox News opinion hacks changed their coverage to appease the deplorables. In the case of the big lie, it was the viewers who radicalized right media, not the other way round. Maybe it’s been that way the whole time?
The deplorables number in the millions. We need a plan to defeat and marginalize them in our democracy, not fantasies about changing what they are.
the fact that so many Americans want to vote for that shitty guy as president shows that a massive portion of the population is also just some shitty person
They are scared and have been convinced that he is the only one that can help them. They are not just “shitty people voting for a shitty person” they really believe that the deep state is out to get Donald and these charges are overblown and that Donald will really save America. They won’t realize that Trump only cares about Trump; even if Trump gets another term and burns down the government and fucks everyone they still will think Donald is just one week away from unveiling his plan to fix it all.
That ignorance makes them pretty shitty.
I’m not saying they’re fundamentally and permanently shitty, but they are being shitty. Refusing to become a more aware person is shitty.
They are scared and have been convinced that he is the only one that can help them. They are not just “shitty people voting for a shitty person” they really believe that the deep state is out to get Donald and these charges are overblown and that Donald will really save America. They won’t realize that Trump only cares about Trump; even if Trump gets another term and burns down the government and fucks everyone they still will think Donald is just one week away from unveiling his plan to fix it all.
And that is exactly my problem with that kind of thinking (or rather: believing). How did they arrive at such conclusions? Did Trump actually do ANYTHING to make their personal lives better even for a second? How many examples are there of Mr. Ivory Tower to make even an ounce of positive difference in the lives of rural folks?
So all I can see is a gullible people following the loudest talking head on a whim. It’s really hard for me to feel pity, much less sympathy in this circumstance. Although pity is certainly appropriate.
Nationalism and nativism pops up every few generations. Always has. We beat it every time and it shuts up and the world dramatically improves for a while. As it improves, some people become nativists and nationalists, and the cycle repeats.
Google the “Know-Nothing Party.” Trump isn’t anything new at all.
Only problem is, just like a super hero, we have to win every time, and they only have to win once.
We shame them for being shitty. Don’t engage them in debate, they are used to that. Don’t try to use facts, because they don’t care about facts. Don’t try to convince them of shit.
Make them feel like outcasts and bad people. Brush off what they say when they say horrible shit. Make them have emotional responses to their shitty views. Conservative news targets these people by exploiting their emotions.
And vote. Vote for people who will fix our education system so that our next generation knows how to think for themselves.
That approach could work in the past, but it won’t now. Now we have the internet when even people shamed by their family or neighbors will find support and like-minded individuals. We are only going to be more divided in the future.
I’m left of centre, and here’s my take - the “left” is fucking up so badly that the right is going to win.
Ever play a sport and you just trounce your opponent, but the coach says “you weren’t that good! They were just that bad tonight.”
This is the same thing. Trump and the GOP aren’t doing some amazing job of campaigning and manipulating, they’re just up against the weakest opponent who can’t stop scoring on their own fucking net.
First let me preface this by saying that I vote against Republicans as often as I get the chance to. Which on the rare occasion someone runs against them where I live. It is usually a democrat. So I am a staunch Ally of the Democrats. That being said.
I am left of center of what is generally considered left in the united states. The left isn’t fucking anything up. The Left has been cut off from having a voice for nearly the last 100 years in the united States. Since at least McCarthy. What we’ve seen is a populous that has been beholden to an incestuous right wing relationship. Between two solidly right wing pro oligarch parties. Though to Liberal Democrats credit. They give lots of lip service to the concept of social democracy. And do eventually, once it no longer takes courage or bravery, do the right thing. Once they get tired of everyone shouting at them enough.
We need the economic tools we’ve spent the last hundred years vilifying. And we need a Resurgence of Education especially economic and political. People in the United States who think they are the left, and the way we are miseducated to define left are a joke. One that is crippling us and turning us against ourselves.
We need to rip and tear the largest corporations apart. We need to nationalize basic necessities. We need to abolish private or unaccountable funding of all elections that every level. And most of all we need to empower workers. It’s only a start. But those are the things we have to do. And unfortunately my generation the Xers. All approaching 50 and 60 years old have largely abdicated and lost their chance to really impact or make a change. We need younger representatives in touch with what’s going on now to write the laws that will lead us into the future. Instead of the regulations that will hold us in some nostalgically idealized past that never existed.
One thing the political center lacks in America - and I say center because we don’t have a truly leftist political party - is a vision for the future. They don’t want a fundamental change in how the economy and government work, they just want to keep things steady and work around the edges.
The problem is the economy and government aren’t working for most people and most people want them replaced.
Republicans have a vision. Yeah, it’s a racist, sexist vision that will drag us back to the 1950s, but it’s a vision they can communicate.
What’s the Democrats’ vision? I don’t think it’s mine, of worker cooperatives and high speed rail and free education and universal health care, paid for by shaking Bezos and Musk upside down until no more money comes out. As far as I can tell they just want to keep things going like they have since the 90s.
And then they wonder why they can’t seem to get people to get excited to vote for them.
This is certainly a part of it. In a time when Democrats should be uniting and putting forward their strongest faces to protect democracy from the GOP, they keep engaging in political gamesmanship because ‘c’mon look at this clown, there’s no way anyone will vote for him!’
Only problem is that people have, and people could once more, put this guy in the White House. And if it happens…well, everything’s fucked.
David Brooks wrote a good article in the New York Times today that tries to help shift perspectives a bit to understand this. I’d highly recommend reading it.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/02/opinion/trump-meritocracy-educated.html
That is the farthest thing from a good article that I’ve read in some time. I suppose that it does give some insights to why trumpers act the way they do, however trying to align their actions with some sort of ‘we the elitists need to do a better job at not being elitist’ mentality is rather dumb at first glance, and a bit insidious upon closer examination.
The ideal that “we’re all in this together” was replaced with the reality that the educated class lives in a world up here, and everybody else is forced into a world down there. Members of our class are always publicly speaking out for the marginalized, but somehow we always end up building systems that serve ourselves.
I love how Brooks can talk about class without bringing labor into it. Just a great example of liberals missing the damn point.
Then he goes on to talk about “open immigration” like that’s even close to what we have.
100% true.
We also like to parrot shit like “no one is above the law” while requiring perfect situations before ever questioning elected leaders like the president when they blatantly break the law. The US has inverse responsibility, where we blame the poor for being poor and give the wealthy every possible chance to buy their way out of crimes.
Except the president and police are literally above the law with the presidential pardon and qualified immunity.
@eurekaphoenix
Wonder how these self-same Republicans would react if Obama had operated like Trump and was being indicted for the same alleged crimes? 🤔
Can confirm
Look, anyone with a working brain should be worried about the prospect, because if he wins, then that means we’re in for the worst four years (and probably much longer than four years) of our lives here in the United States. I don’t think we come back from that.
If Trump wins re-election, I think it’s entirely non-hyperbolic to say that democracy in this country is over. Think of the things he tried to do with some, obviously-too-small, guard rails. He attempted a literal coup. Literally throw away votes. Literally has one of his chief advisors saying that if people protested said coup, they would use the insurrection act, or more directly, use the military to put down to put down those protesting the coup. There is a very small number of things that prevented this from happening, not the least of which is just a tiny handful of people being like “uh, we can’t actually do this, right?”
I don’t entirely disagree, but it’s also true that Trump exposed some serious flaws in our political system, and that serious people have been working very hard since Jan 6th to make it much harder to do what he and his cohorts did. One example would be the supreme court victory that struck down a proposed law that would have allowed state congresses to ignore election results. Not saying everything’s okay now, but maybe it’s not quite so dire. Of course, most democratic coups happen when an individual or group just decides they won’t follow the rules anymore, so there is that little problem with trying to litigate ourselves out of this mess.
You know, if you skip that first sentence in my comment, what country would you think I was talking about?
Fascism happens slowly, and then all at once. Please, I beg of you, read a book.
Not just for you guys but the world. The world as we know it is at stake as USA is currently the world’s superpower.
Last time I checked, Trump pulled troops out of Middle East and Asia, where US destabilized many countries. As far as the rest of the world is concerned, Trump is much better.
Source: Living right next to those countries and have friends who fled from such countries.
the only thing Trump did for the rest of the world was give us something to laugh at. Problem is 30% of you guys still don’t see the joke
