What happens in November is up to Biden – it will not be the fault of the protest voter if Trump is elected. The questions remain: does the Democratic party fear Trump as much as we do? And does it value its voters enough to shift away from an approach to the onslaught in Gaza that a majority of Democratic voters are against?
I’m just tryna vote for the lesser, by far, of two evils. It’s a fucking binary system, you can stomp your feet all you want and still get a genocide and possibly much worse, or you can at least preserve hope for a better future.
It’s reaaaaaaaaaaaaaally simple:
Voting Biden in gives us time to take all this energy we’re mustering up and using it to promote broader, more significant changes. We don’t stop at the election and instead use the next four years to push toward a better tomorrow.
Too many people are stopping at Trump v. Biden. Too many more are stopping at Them v “The System”.
Change takes time. When you vote for Biden, you vote to reset the clock, and then it’s time for all of us to get to work.
Exactly. If Trump wins, he will outright BAN the Democratic Party, at worst. We will all either be Republicans, or we will be prisoners. And if that happens, the only group with the means to oppose him and the GOP Fascists is gone. And yes, the DNC absolutely has the means. They have all the tools they need. Now, I will admit that they lack the will to use those tools, but if Trump wins they’ll never get the chance to use them.
Can you explain how you expect to push for a better tomorrow after Biden is re-elected?
The reason I am reluctant to vote for Biden is that he is supporting genocide. If Biden continues to give away large quantities of child-exploding bombs, and he is still rewarded with reelection, then what leverage will the anti-genocide movement have left?
It seems like if Biden can ignore the anti-genocide movement and still win, then we can expect Biden to keep ignoring for 4 more years.
Hope for whom? A better future for whom? If personal selfishness outweighs the value of humanity, then we’ve already lost, and the outcome of the election is irrelevant.
for whom?
The gay and trans people who won’t get murdered? The women who won’t die in abortive childbirth?
Are there not gay and trans people in Palestine right now? Or is it only American LGBTQIA 🏳️🌈 folks that matter?
Lesser of two evils works when we’re talking about blocking universal healthcare or police reform. When you use that bullshit to justify pulling the lever for genocide, you just don’t care that much about genocide.
And when you use that justification to enable someone who’s going to increase support of that genocide what does that make you? Sure sounds like you’re supporting more genocide than a Biden voter is.
It’s like people forgot how many Americans died during the height of the pandemic because T**** is a fucking idiot.
Anyone who is even remotely near the crosshairs of the Christofascists needs to pull their head out of their ass and vote Democrat this election.
The Republicunts don’t care if you think “both sides are bad” if you’re LGBTQ+, atheist, non-Christian, think abortion should be freely available, etc.
Ideals and principles don’t stop bullets or beatings.
Hey, how about you just work with us this time and then here in four years we will pretend to care about what you wanna do.
That seems to be the Democrat playbook anymore
You’re standing in a room with two levers. If you pull the left one, five people die. If you pull the right one, ten people die. If you don’t pull one, it’s random, either five or ten people die.
So if you choose not to pull, and ten people die, would you feel guilty for the five additional people? You could have prevented their deaths.
Don’t bother. Those kind of ppl never accept responsibility for their actions so the trolley problem is irrelevant to them.
They’re just virtue signalling to reduce Biden s support.
Ooh, I love thought experiments! You’re in an auditorium. There are three stages. On one stage, a man is guilotining one child every ten minutes. He cries into his handkerchief. On another stage, a man is gleefully guilotining one child every ten minutes and periodically kicking a dog. Both men get loud applause from different sides of the auditorium. On the third stage, almost completely unnoticed by the crowd, Jill Stein juggles bowling pins while tossing candy to kids. A vote will be taken to see who stays on stage.
Glad to see the goldfish memory of voters who missed what happened the last 4 times this has happened. I’m sure it’ll fix it this time and isn’t just a recurring right-wing strategy to alienate voters on the left with propaganda.
They can’t remember further back than the last media cycle, and the can’t think forward further than a week.
I guarantee at least some, likely all of these people were fucking pissed about the death of Roe. They learned nothing. Absolutely nothing.
You know what’s worse than denial of the right to choose? Genocide. That’s what we got for electing Joe Biden last time. Fool me once, etc, etc.
… completely ignoring the only other option was “even more genocide than that”. We didn’t get genocide because we elected Joe Biden. We got genocide because right wingers in Israel want to conduct a genocide. Removing Biden from the equation and replacing him with Trump does not improve the situation. Doing that would be the actual foolish move.
it will not be the fault of the protest voter if Trump is elected. The questions remain: does the Democratic party fear Trump as much as we do?
If you fear him, why would you not assist in preventing his rise?
If you give a shit about Palestine, why would you not support the better candidate for them? You think Trump will do anything to make this situation better?
The logical fallacy at play here is so glaring I can’t believe these journalists are willing to put their name to it.
Biden somewhat dances around the idea of helping Palestinians, while Trump avoids referring to them as people. Both are terrible by any metric, but one is miles ahead.
If you honestly believe it would be the same:
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I’d get banned for telling you what I really think.
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That particular issue zeros out and Democrats are still better on literally every other issue.
If genocide costs the Dems the election, they will be forced to reevaluate their relationship with Israel, and they will think twice before doing something else similarly morally outrageous in the future. We need the Democratic Party to stand for human decency or this country is irredeemable because the Republicans certainly won’t. We must discipline the party, and if it doesn’t learn the lesson, it needs to be destroyed and replaced.
When a government outspends every other military in the world by a factor of 3, it’s crucial that it have a conscience. Dissent voters are that conscience.
Oops, you gave away the game that you’re a Trump stan. Try again with anther alt.
Fair enough, but I think we’re borderline splitting hairs.
A delusion is a belief held with strong conviction despite superior evidence to the contrary.
The word can be used in mental health contexts, but it’s in common usage as a synonym for “profoundly mistaken.” I can see the argument for calling it ableist, but it’s tenuous.
If we’re talking countries that are being attacked without cause, should we talk about how Trump doesn’t want to support Ukraine’s defense? You literally only care about one issue, don’t you? This whole election is riding on one point in a thousand possible issues to consider.
Are you fucking retarded? Trump amped this up by moving the capital of Israel to Jerusalem.
Jesus Christ get a fucking clue.
If Trump is elected Palestine is leveled.
He literally said he’d “finish the job”
I mean… If your goal is to end a genocide and you help get a guy who said “finish the job” elected, yeah, it is your fault.
Let us not pretend otherwise.
Uncommitted votes don’t help Trump. You know this, you’re just too much of a pussy to say you wanna murder more Palestinians
Wow, that is an incredibly unhinged thing to say to somebody.
I think if you are taking it on yourself to be a steward of the Palestinian people, you have to act respectable.
You get to talk about respectability when you stop supporting genocide. If you don’t support genocide, why oppose voting uncommitted?
You have literally painted yourself into a self-destructive corner with your moronic strawman.
What other reason is there to not vote uncommitted? These are democratic primaries, trump gets nothing here. Give me one good reason not to take this free opportunity to let biden know genocide isn’t ok
You get the choice of less murder or more murder, and your choice is “eh, doesn’t matter to me”.
They do actually. Jesus get a brain. Or take 5 min and research fptp voting
Are you talking about the time Trump said the genocide is a bad look? Trump might not have a moral conscience, but at least he is has a political self-preservation instinct. Biden is blind-walking over a cliff in his genocidal determination.
What happens in November is up to Biden – it will not be the fault of the protest voter if Trump is elected.
If Trump is elected, I will blame both Biden AND the protest voter.
But not the people who chose someone supporting genocidal actions instead of the people demanding better.
It’s this simple, if all of y’all who spend your time trying to convince those of us who don’t want to support sending Israel all the weaponry they want, while defending them against the consequences of their own actions, while using our money to do so, and having Israel use $13b a year of our money to do so, would instead work with us, we could actually make a change:
And if at the end of the day that causes us to lose, it means that America is full of people who support this and they should get their way.
At least we find out where we really stand.
You guys spend all day trying to drag us to the side of “ Okay with sending bombs to kill more children.”, maybe you could drag people to the side of “Let’s not send more bombs to kill kids:”
I know which side I am staying on, and if we get outvoted, such is democracy.
People demanding better is not a side, and thus cannot win. The let’s not bomb kids side has zero power. Your choice is between bombing kids and bombing more kids. Enabling the bombing more kids side means your fake morals outweigh the sloppy real-world political situation that actually exists.
Your house is on fire. You are standing equidistant from a full petrol can and a bucket of water, and you’re deciding not to act because neither is the perfect solution.
In the short term, your position is justifiable. But in the long term, it’s anti-democratic. The reasoning you’ve provided here has been used for many elections in the past and can be used forever into the future. But if we’re forced to choose between two bad parties, and there’s never a chance of a third party accomplishing anything good, then nobody will ever represent us.
And if we’re stuck in a non-democracy forever, then it makes sense for people to pursue other more radical solutions. Is that what you want? It’s the natural implication of your message.
Or work with us to pick a different candidate.
Make clear we won’t stand for him and that their only option is to run a new candidate.
As long as you keep giving them what they want, they won’t change
