34 points

I don’t claim to really understand what the purpose of state atheist policies is, perhaps someone can ELI5 It me, but at least It seems fair honestly, as:

The school is part of the GO! network, which has a general ban on wearing religious symbols.

If it was a ban explicitly on Muslim headscarves it’d be discriminatory. Another question is whether this will be enforced in equal measure on a white kid wearing a cross though…

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39 points

I think it’s because most religions, by their exclusive natures, are divisive and offensive to many. Many current and historical wars have been fought over religion, so some of their outward symbols carry a political message, whether intended or not.

Wearing outward symbols with a political message is banned among civil servants. If you wonder why, ask yourself how you would feel showing up to the welfare office and asking for service from an employee with a gold Trump necklace or a MAGA hat. Or, more prosaically, imagine getting pulled over by a cop for speeding. You are a Muslim wearing a keffiyeh and the officer is a Jew wearing a yarmulka (skull cap). You know that police have discretion to give you a ticket or a warning. He eyes your keffiyeh skeptically, you respond with a look of defiance, and he gives you a ticket. You might suspect that you got a ticket instead of a warning because the cop is a Jew and he saw your apparent support for the Palestinians. Now, of course, all of this could happen without the overt symbology, but the government would rather not open itself up to such obvious accusations.

These laws ban overt religious symbols only. If you want to wear magic Mormon underwear or a small cross or star of David or crescent moon under your shirt, you can. You can even wear Trump-themed butt plug if you want to.

But fuck all of these cults and their symbols.

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10 points

‘You can even wear Trump-themed butt plug if you want to.’

Probably the most accurate of your examples.

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4 points
*

You can be against religion but your example with the kuffiyeh is a bad one because it’s a nationalistic symbol that is worn by Palestinians of any religion (or thereby lack of) plus their supporters.

Those familiar with French society and the debates over the Hijab in many European countries also know that laicism or any other secularist laws are usually abused by conservative politicians as a masquerade to introduce discriminatory laws against Muslims.

Especially French lawmakers are notorious in this aspect. As another commenter already mentioned, Christians wearing a cross usually don’t have any issues.

Belgium as in this case is also not much better in this aspect even though I’m not aware they have a laicist state philosophy.

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3 points

Ty! That explains it!

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19 points

If it was a ban explicitly on Muslim headscarves it’d be discriminatory.

It’s a bit trickier than that. In France schools are secular by law. In principal this is great. In practice chistians never had an issue wearing their cross neckless, even in a visible manner. Muslim girls from conservative families on the other hand can be forced to quit school at a young age, since they are not allowed to wear a scarf there.

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5 points
Deleted by creator
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1 point

That’s a problem with enforcement, not the law.

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4 points

As I anticipated. Racism sucks

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1 point
*

What you say sounds brutal to me. The solution would be bridging the gap between theory and practice.

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1 point

Seems self-defeating to me. Most effective way to fight radical religosity is to educate people. Let em go to school and half of them will be ex-Muslim by college.

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5 points

Let them go to school

are you talking to the parents?

and half of them will be ex-Muslim by college

Have you seen this happening for christians? They pretty much all go to school.

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9 points

It is equal because it applies to everyone, but not equitable because it affects some religions more than others (clothing is more important to some religions than others).

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9 points

Let’s be honest here. The goal of the 2004 law was to ban the Muslim scarf. It was written in a generic way to be non discriminatory but the goal was clear from the start.

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3 points

When I was a kid (1970s & 80s US), openly wearing religious symbols to school was a little weird, but it wasn’t against the rules. They were just another piece of jewelry or clothing. It amazes me that a reasonable and evenly applied dress code needs a ruling from a human rights court.

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14 points

All those French Nuns are gonna look so weird when their hijabs are taken away

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22 points

Actually, the french secularist law were written more than 100 years ago to kick out nun and priest from public school.

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2 points

The law banning the scarf in school is from 2004.

The 1901 secularist law is about separating Church and State. It’s about freedom of religion and not having any official religion, it wasn’t supposed to be about forcing people to hide their religion.

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20 points
*

Not sure how many nuns go to this school, don’t they kind if have their own schooling? Isn’t that their thing?

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17 points
*

France’s obsession with laicité comes from a long deep war against catholic entrenchment, which was hard won and not to be thrown away for another stubborn religion that comes along.

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1 point

Good. One thing the French get right is not taking any shit from religion. It’s caused too much suffering in this world already.

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1 point

So this GO! network is obviously a total antisemitic organization, right?

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-2 points

Good. Schools should not be abused for religious propagation.

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