Image of the introductory coursework for people wanting to learn English.
It’s crazy how the eldritch amalgamation that is the English language can have zero rules, yet a dozen unwritten ones of what you can and can’t say. Good luck threading the needle if you aren’t up to date with the latest cultural evolution in America. Add on top that the kids keep inventing sentences worth of new acronyms.
I get what group of people the article is poking fun at, one of them is on proud display in the comment section. Though I still feel people should have a better understanding that as the Internet’s lingua franca you’ll encounter people from a wide range of backgrounds, and their grasp of the language and culture will vary.
I feel like the last paragraph made it pretty clear? Most people on the internet doesn’t have English as their native language, expecting all those people to understand the constantly shifting connotation of every word feels rather ignorant/ethnocentric.
But every language has a constant changing lexicon and a difference between offical and actually used.
Most language courses will have you learn the word woman before you learn female. Is this really an issue?
What issue? I’m not even directly talking about the usage of the word female. I’m talking about the lack of understanding a lot* of English speakers show when “others” use their language.
To use male/female as an example, my language doesn’t even have direct translation for male and female, we only have the equivalent to man/woman when speaking of humans. I could totally understand that someone who aren’t terminally online may be confused of when to use woman and when to use female, especially as female may seem more formal and thus be confused with being the polite option, just as an example.
*far from all of course
This, so much. In my language, even as little kids, they called us “males and females”, very rarely “boys and girls”.
Native speakers need to understand that not everyone knows all the connotations that come from every english word. Especially considering some of them are vastly different based on whether it’s used in USA, UK or Australia.
TL;DR, most people are reasonable and can tell the difference. We cool.
People where English is not their first language get a pass. There is usually a very telling inflection when someone says “females” and means it in the bad way. I would rather help people with their English and explain that it is best to not say it that way, than get upset over our language being unnecessarily complicated.
The context of how female is said is even more confusing. Best way I think is if you are referring to a group of people or a specific person as female(s), that is bad. If you are referring to something about our gender, a description, or something impersonal, then that is fine. “Female anatomy.”, “I hate being female.”, “There was a female guard at the station.”
While it is puts me on edge when I hear it (in that bad context), it isn’t like they called me a cunt or something really foul. It is usually just an immediate red flag that we may be dealing with an incel, but let’s see where this goes. Usually doesn’t take long to get a confirmation on how they really meant it.
I personally already know the connotation of “female/s” in English and avoid using it, so that’s not an issue for me.
It was more of a reminder (to some native speakers, yeah, I shouldn’t have generalized) not to assume the worst of people saying it, because they might not know. In the whole thread there was just this one comment reminding people that ESL people exist, and it was pretty downvoted so I wanted to add on that.
Plus, as you said, most of those Tate-types have a dozen other red flags attached to them, so imo there’s not really any point in attacking people just for misusing a word (especially online where you can’t rely on vocal inflection or accent). It just drives non-native speakers away from conversations.
(Also, ironically, as far as I know “cunt” is pretty much a greeting in Australia so even from that alone you can’t really assume anything. Context is always important, unless you know 100% you’re speaking with someone who grew up in the same country)
I can certainly see it being a struggle for non native English speakers or English speakers from other cultures. Referring to women as females is one of those things thats accurate according to the language, but a lot of bigots have figured out that they can use common words as slurs and people are slower to catch on. Female is unfortunately one of those words; it evokes big “I see you as livestock” energy
Yeah. I think a fair few people misunderstand the intent of my comment. I agree that the connotation of “female” makes it a word one should be conscious about its usage.
I was strictly speaking of how non native speakers of English may struggle with keeping up with what’s socially correct English according to the wider Internet culture.
I don’t understand. My girlfriend calls women “females”.
So long as you’re not using it in a disrespectful way, there’s no reason why women can’t be called what they are. What’s next? Getting upset because I call it a vagina instead of a “pussy”?
I’ve never read any internet comment using “female” as a noun for human women that wasn’t problematic.
This is interesting to me because, as a dude in his 40s, I grew up with adults (and even cartoons) saying ‘woman xxxx’ being the pejorative (i.e. damn woman drivers!). It’s been weird to seem to see this flip.
In addition to what the other reply to you said, I was talking specifically about “female” as a noun.
“females like xyz” and so on.
I use it, and never mean it in an offensive way.
“The pronoun “she” is for females, while “he” is for males”.
But now that I see that it’s so widely seen as a slur, I’ll refrain from using it with people who don’t know me well. I’ll use “women and girls”, now.
I’m bothered when ever I hear someone use females as a collective noun for women. Not necessarily because it offends me or because I’m offended on behalf of someone else, but because it sounds so strange to me and the context where it is used is often wildly inappropriate.
The usage is odd; in my experience people who refer to women collectively as females often do not refer to men collectively as males which is often telling about other beliefs and ideas. Also, male/female and man/woman are dichotomies, and using men/females sounds really off.
Referring to people using technical terminology feels reductive and weird to me. Replace female with any other technical identity term and use it the same way: it will get really awkward really fast.
I am aware that the majority of people who use females collectively are not doing so to offend. Hell, the other day, I heard a teacher refer to the girls in her class as females. I doubt she was using it as a pejorative, but she referred to the boys as… boys. The whole thing was weird to me.
It’s generally the difference between using it as a descriptor, and a noun. Noun bad.
Compare “I really like watching the female football game” and “I really like watching the women’s football game”
“Female” isn’t trans-inclusive, but people aren’t going to look at you weird either way you say it.
Now compare that to:
“I really like watching the females play football.” and “I really like watching the women play football.”
“Females” here makes you sound like you’re getting sexual gratification from watching the players, or that you see them as nothing more than a vagina, “women” sounds like you might like the game.
Those guys are the rapiest ones. It’s disingenuous to act like the types of men who call women ‘females’ aren’t the same guys who neg, space invade and spike drinks.
Ok I will totally admit that, especially when during DEI discussions or other similar meetings, when my brain is about to say “woman” I can freak out and over-correct and I have absolutely said “females”.
I used to say “boys and girls”, even my female wife says “girls” is fine, but 1 time in 2009 I got yelled at for using “girls” and I have never recovered.
Sometimes it feels awkward. I’m getting used to it but for some reason it’s unnatural. My women friends in real life also find it weird to say women, they also say females.
Do you also have ‘man friends’ in real life? Or do you say ‘male friends’?
I use to call to females woman
I write it females because I don’t like the look of the word woman, it’s not a sexist thing it just never looks right to me and I always worry I did it wrong.
In general, female is an adjective. It can be used as a noun, but generally shouldn’t be, at least when talking about humans. So you can say “my female colleague” or “a woman I work with”. You can say “the female mind” or “a woman’s brain.” You can say “a panel of female postal workers” or “a panel of women who work for the post office.” If you stick to the adjective/noun rule, you’ll come off far less offensive/gross sounding. Hope this helps.
I just avoid it altogether and rephrase my use of “females” to be inoffensive but to be honest I don’t particularly get why it’s so offensive.
