This is the best summary I could come up with:
Having played through its entirety last week for my review, though, I can confidently say that it’s not unfair, as every foe possesses learnable movesets with consistent, readable telegraphing (the base game actually had a few problems with this).
While Shadow of the Erdtree is home to some of FromSoftware’s toughest ever boss fights, finally taking them down after hours of patient perseverance led to some of the highest highs I’ve ever felt playing a game.
I couldn’t help but loudly cheer despite the fact it was 1:30 in the morning (sorry, neighbors) when I finally beat Rellana, Twin Moon Knight — the first or second boss you’re likely to encounter — in a (self-imposed) duel with no summons.
Shadow of the Erdtree takes what the base game did and does it better, cutting away most of its formulaic side content like simple mines and catacombs and giving its players a denser world with more bespoke and original things to find.
Neither pillar of Elden Ring’s gameplay would give me the satisfaction they do if the experience was designed to be easier or to hold my hand, so I’m in full agreement with Miyazaki’s comments.
In fact, that’s a big part of why the Land of Shadow is so enjoyable to explore — new weapons, armors, spells, talismans, Spirit Ashes, and more are scattered all throughout the DLC’s various zones, with particularly special items often located within or at the end of side dungeons.
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Stop complaining about difficulty, pussies. Git gud.
I really wanted to like ER. It’s fucking beautiful and seems to have a lot of depth, but the a appeal to difficulty doesn’t really hold any water, cuz the only thing that makes it difficult is unnecessarily clunky controls.
Maybe there’s a mod or something now that makes the combat more fluid… I should give it another visit.
soulslike mechanics probably feel clunky to people that don’t really play soulslike. That said a bunch of things totally are clunky like cycling through spells and items which hasn’t significantly changed since dark souls, and for people that would rather take their time browsing the items walking while the menu is up is probably pretty jarring. Probably other things. It really has come a long way from demon souls but I honesly kinda prefer the jankiness of the older games.
It’s been a while, but I recall most attacks having an obnoxiously long animation, and that animation being set in stone once you trigger it. There is no aborting a sword-swing midway through to dodge or block. And if you make the mistake of pressing the attack button twice, apparently there’s a built-in ability queue that can’t be disabled, so you have to wait for the first animation to completely play through, then wait again for a second animation to play from start to finish.
It makes it extremely unresponsive. That unresponsiveness seems to be what most folks are talking about when they’re applauding the game’s “difficulty”… but you could make any game that flavor of difficult by obstructing the controls.
obnoxiously long animation, and that animation being set in stone once you trigger it. There is no aborting a sword-swing midway through to dodge or block.
The whole point of the animations being set in stone is to force the player to be mindful of their actions. Don’t commit to an attack unless you’re sure it’s safe to do so. Otherwise you’re going to get caught out.
The slow animations are a deliberate drawback to the more powerful weapons. Being able to swing an UGS around like it’s nothing would make for a fairly unbalanced weapon. If you want a weapon with quicker animations you probably want something more DEX focused. Just look at the Falcion’s animations compared to the Zweihander’s animations in Dark Souls for example. Zweihander puts out bigger damage numbers and thus attacks slower. Pretty basic balancing concept to have thing that does big damage be slower.
The lack of being able to abort moves is simply a way for the game to punish poor decisions. If you get caught out by a slow animation then you probably need to work on picking when to attack. A big part of the game is that it teaches the player through punishing mistakes. That’s why it forces you to commit to actions.
These only come across as clunky if you’re not learning from your mistakes and working around these deliberate limitations. Pick different weapons or pick better moments to attack/use an item so you don’t commit to something at the wrong moment.
The input queue is another thing that lines up with this. I believe the whole point is to, again, push the user into being careful. Dark Souls isn’t a hack and slash like DMC. You don’t want to go into fights button mashing. The game wants you to take your time. The button queue kind of reinforces that by punishing button mashing and being too hasty. I do also find it useful in queuing certain actions like attacking straight out of a roll or following item usage.
All the things you describe as clunky each have a purpose. The game expects you to work with those limitations and when you do you get a better experience. Going against them is when you run into issues. Since youre attempting to doing things the game is trying to discourage. Like button mashing (input queue) and getting too greedy with attacks (Being locked to actions/Longer animations).
One could accuse Elden Ring of many things, but clunky controls is definitively not one of them.
It’s probably one of the best combat systems I’ve ever played. When you die, you know it’s your fault (usually because of greed), not the system cheating you. It’s very fair, unlike many others.
I mean, bosses input reading my heavy attack to suddenly turn their three move combo into a four move combo 50% of the time feels a bit lame. For instance the dancing lion suddenly going into the spray carousel after it would have exhausted its combo and rested otherwise. My main issue is on the inconsistency.
Don’t get me wrong, that fight was really fun and I overcame it, but there are many such cases where it feels overtly like the game just threw in the extra attack as a “fuck you” while trying to learn the mechanics. There might be a subtle cue to the boss’s body language I didn’t see but there’s also the issue of the camera in encounters with large enemies.
On the whole though, as frustrating as it may be at times, often there’s still an underlying pattern. The only fights I think are explicitly unfair are the ones with adds or multiple enemies that add a lot of uncertainty especially if some are off camera. The twin gargoyle fight comes to mind, as does the Godskin duo where you explicitly have to kill both around the same time or the other respawns.
Get the fuck out of here. Absolute troll post.
Post your steam account stats, I dare you.
Which stats? I put over 100 hours into ER if that’s what you’re looking for. Like I said, I really wanted to like it, and ‘got gud’ (learned to time the control’s clunkiness) enough to progress a decent way through the game. But it never actually got fun, nor did it live up to the wildly positive feedback it was getting from the gaming community. ER is an okay game. 5/10. It’s not bad by any stretch, but it’s not the posterchild of a perfect game that it was/is lauded as.
People are allowed to not like games you like …
I also find souls likes to feel janky. Elden Ring is playable for me, Dark Souls 3 I just rage quit rather than dealing with its UI.
The gameplay is perfect. But how about just fixing the PC version with some basic things like…
- A setting to disable chromatic aberration.
- Fix the broken ultrawide support.
- Add remappable keybinds.
- Unlock the framerate.
- Add DLSS and FSR.
You know, basic, fundamental PC features.
Fromsoft PC ports have always been notoriously bad, but it blows my mind that after 15 years, they still don’t support something as important as custom keybinds.
Not being able to grab a wooden club and beat god to death with it isn’t the game being difficult, but you listen to some folks and you might get the idea its what they expect.
Use summons, get your magic going (or hell, full sorcerer) and you won’t see any major filters. Might need to do fights a couple times but thats hardly a big deal.
The problem is that the controls for anything other than the fighting are rather clunky. It’s not something specific to ER, but rather gamepad based games, for some reason. I’ve the same issue with Horizon Zero Dawn. In both games I play pretty much with the weapons, the healing and that’s about it because fuck all that shit about cycling through options in the middle of a fight.
You can long-press d-pad down to reset the inventory belt to the first item, same thing with the spells on d-pad up
I wish long press would just show us a choice wheel, right thumbstick to pick my choice, done. Free the left and right foe other stuff.
You sound like everyone who has ever seen me menu spells in a KH speedrun. You sound like someone who turns weapons off in ULTRAKILL. Neither of these are explicitly bad things, but the system in place (a scrollable selection menu in real-time) can be utilized at the same level of efficiency as a spell wheel; you just need to exercise your memory when you set up and when you use your belt items.
There’s a lot of titles that allow you to pause and utilize your menu. Dragon’s Dogma 2, for instance, allows you to pause at 0 HP and still use healing items, so long as you haven’t finished your dying animation or been knocked flat.
Dark Souls and similar games make a deliberate choice in keeping the game in real time when you menu, and there’s a lot of truly functional items you can keep on your belt to help those weapons: status items can help you finish applying a status when an enemy leaps back, the physick, stamina regeneration, many extremely powerful effects that they want a small execution and collection barrier on. Alone in the Dark (5) had a real-time menu like this too far before it was popular, and people complained bitterly about it, so I get where the complaint comes from.
Without dramatically reducing your available options or developing a completely different system of menus, the controls can’t really be less “clunky”. If horizon’s wheel and DaS’s menu aren’t for you, you may just not like how action RPGs control. If it’s about needing time for the menu, these specific titles may not really be up your alley. There’s a TON of games that operate the way you’re expecting, and at this point the community and developer alike are committed to sustaining this experience that provides friction. Friction is basically how you talk, from a design standpoint, about the difficulty of the game and why it’s present and what it does functionally.
If you don’t understand how friction and fun are related, the game was unironically not made for you, and misunderstanding that or not being eloquent enough to explain that has led to the “git gud” divide. The menus are meant to provide friction. The combat animations and the period you must wait before acting again provide friction. Being a relatively heavy RPG, you can overcome friction multiple ways, either through developed personal skill or overleveling or picking tools that the boss isn’t equipped to handle or statuses it’s weak to.
TL;DR of course the menus are clunky dude they’re based on a decades-long tradition of interfaces that provide gameplay fun. The fun is there for a grand majority of people, if you’re not having fun with the ball-crusher, nobody is making you use it.
I do appreciate your point of view. I just disagree about the “it’s been like this for ages and we’re used to it and it’s part of the difficulty”. Good UI should cause no friction.
I do agree a paused menu with quaffing health potions mid-strike is bullshit. But if things are gonna be real time (not even slow down while in menu wheel like many others) then there is no reason to stick with ancient traditions. It would be simple enough to have an item wheel instead.
As it is yeah, I do play with a handicap. It’s fine, I’ve beaten other games with similar issues (from my POV). I’m just super annoyed about subpar UX in software. I’ve seen too many in my career and too many people enduring bullshit UI… so it really rustles my jimmies when I see the same problems in games. You know, software that’s supposed to provide fun.
It’s really not an ER specific pet peeve of mine; I’ve endured shitty UI/UX for the last 37 years and so I’m a bit grumpy about it, is all.