Yeah, make them out of metal, that rolls on metal roads. And those metal tires can carry a ton more weight, so put a lot of people in them who are going the same way.
Oh right, we already have those.
Noooo, you don’t get it, bro. Just one more lane, please. I promise, it will be better than last time. One more lane, that’s all we need. I’m begging you, please.
I’m on my knees here. One more lane, just one more! This time it will be different, I swear. We won’t have traffic jams, I promise! Just one more lane and we’ll be free.
Come on, man, think of the children. Just one more lane. I’m begging you. For the love of liberty, just one more lane!
Though “those” are wildly inaccessible and/or unrealistic in parts of the world.
Edit: I was trying to say “unrealistic to use for most people today,” I wasn’t trying to brush off public transportation as something we shouldn’t do at all
No, there are definitely physical and engineering issues, like massive rolling mountains and valleys, or island chains or deserts whose sand is unsuitable to durable railways.
Hot take: tire particulates are a conservative anti-EV talking point. “My V8 mustang weighs less than an EV, therefore its better on pollution than a EV because tire particulates”. Totally disregarding the impact of tailpipe emissions.
!fuckcars@lemmy.world material
I think it’s just reminding people that EVs aren’t a panacea to all our issues with transportation, and they actually exacerbates at least one of those issues. This is while we know there are better solutions for >90% of our personal transportation with public transportation, bicycling, walking, micro-mobility, etc. Moving one or two people around with a multi-tonne machine is insanely inefficient!
No it’s not, because conservatives don’t think micro plastics are a problem. Pretty soon there will be truck bros making tiktoks competing to see how quickly they can destroy a set of tires just to “trigger the libs”.
I saw a thing on some US people welding fucking whistles in their car’s exhausts so that they could annoy as many people as possible. Apparently it’s legal in some places there.
One person I know claimed to have run calculations, and found that the tire dust alone was putting out more pollution than the tires and tailpipe of the average gas car. Idk where they got their numbers or how that could work out, since the average gas car in America is a large truck.
It could be true. Catalytic converters do a pretty good job of filtering out most pollutants. They also increase CO2 emissions in a variety of direct and indirect ways. Everything else is lower, though.
The way to make EV tires pollute less is to not chase 600+ mile range. Keep them around 300-400 miles, and use further battery improvements to reduce weight. There’s no reason EVs have to be heavier forever. With better charging infrastructure, 400 miles is more than enough.
The way to fix everything else wrong with them is to not make cars the default mode of transportation.
The way to fix everything else wrong with them is to not make cars the default mode of transportation.
Say it again louder for the folks in the back!
The “everything else” wrong with cars dwarfs the issue of pollution. Cars being the default mode of transportation is ultimately responsible for everything from obesity to the housing crisis!
There’s no reason EVs have to be heavier forever
That’s a bit of a stretch, unfortunately. The energy density of batteries is nowhere close to that of gasoline - joule for joule, gasoline weighs about 100 times less than batteries. Also, a fuel tank big enough to give its vehicle a 400 mile range will get lighter over the course of the trip, as the liquid fuel gets converted into polluting gas and exhausted into the atmosphere - batteries don’t get appreciably lighter as you discharge them.
Agree that 400 miles range with charging stations as ubiquitous as today’s gas stations would help EV adoption. I do worry about the rollout of charging stations being slowed down by competition with expensive and fragile hydrogen tech (keep the hydrogen on boats and trains pls).
What kind of backhanded EV misinformation bullshit is this?
Electric, gas, petrol, hydrogen, diesel, cooking oil or vodka; what you put in your car to make it go makes no difference to the tires or the wear.
From the article:
In an EV era, tires are becoming the greatest emitters of particulate matter
The point being that electric drops tailpipe emissions to zero, making tires the next target for reducing emissions.
That sentence and headline are completely wrong though. Tires already are one of the greatest emitters of particulate matter even with ICE cars in mind, because this is a general car issue and cannot really be directly resolved. An improvement would be less weight. If cars were smaller and consequently lighter, then they’d pollute less. But unfortunately we are still going the opposite direction and cars are still getting fatter and fatter, just like the people driving them.
tires need to be made of non-toxic materials. like mushroom/algae, etc.
then brake dust is next.
That explanation is fair enough but the headline is red meat the the EV disinformation brigade.
That explanation is fair enough but the headline is red meat the the EV disinformation brigade.
It’s funny how words affect people differently.
Not long ago, I posted a short, precisely-stated comment mentioning an observed fact that I had verified with a relevant authority. When I later checked in, I was surprised to find someone accusing me of spreading misinformation, and my comment removed by a moderator. It was clear that my accuser had badly misinterpreted my words. He refused to admit it or accept clarification. (And the mod had already acted, rashly.)
I re-checked what I had written about twenty times over the course of the day. There was nothing there to support the accusation. My best guess is that my phrasing or the subject matter might have touched on rough emotions from a bad experience, leading him to see what he expected to see instead of what I wrote, and triggering attack mode.
Communicating well really is complicated. It takes work on both sides, and can quickly turn into a bad time if it goes off the rails.
Because of this, I’ve been making an effort to read (and re-read) charitably, especially with people I don’t know well.
It does. EVs are much heavier due to battery weight and have more power and torque. Which all results in more tire wear.
2023 top 5 vehicles sold in USA and weight:
1 - Ford F-150 4069-5697lbs
2 - Chevrolet Silverado 4400-6947lbs
3 - Ram pickup 4765-6440lbs
4 - Toyota RAV4 3370lbs
5 - Tesla Model Y 4416lbs
Looks like the only electric on the list is below the average weight. We don’t have these conversations about the trucks.
That’s a list of a bunch of trucks compared to a midsized SUV, so you’re kind of proving yourself wrong. Cars are split into weight classes, so a comparison that doesn’t acknowledge that isn’t very useful. A EV Sedan is on average much heavier than an ICE sedan.
No one’s saying ICE vehicles are better for the environment than EVs
Hey man, it’s got nothing to do with them being heavier, it IS about how that weight is distributed differently. You’ve mispoken and now everyone is latched on to something that isn’t true about something that is true.
EV tires are made from different compounds then truck and car tires which causes them to wear ~20% faster.
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EVs have instant torque delivery, which can put more strain on the tires during acceleration. Therefore, they need EV tires that can handle the increased force and extra weight.
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Electric vehicles have heavy battery packs, affecting the overall weight distribution. This can impact tire wear, so EV tires are designed to carry and distribute the extra weight effectively.
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EV tires are engineered to have lower rolling resistance. These tires reduce the energy required to move the vehicle, resulting in better range and longer battery life.
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Most EVs use regenerative braking systems, which recover energy during braking. EV tires offer better traction and grip, enhancing the effectiveness of regenerative braking.
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Electric vehicles are generally quieter than traditional ICE vehicles. To complement this characteristic, EV tires are built to reduce road noise and vibrations, providing a quieter and more comfortable ride
EVs are much heavier due to battery weight
That’s not inherently true. It’s most true for grossly oversized and inefficient EVs. Which is unfortunately most of what they build today.
You’re getting down voted but you’re right. I don’t think people realize that most tires are now made from synthetic rubber, AKA plastic.
Also someone tried to disprove you by posting a list with ICE trucks being as heavy as EV cars. Like what? Of course trucks are heavier. EV Trucks are even heavier than that and an EV subcompact will be much heavier than an ICE compact. Also everyone is talking about how trucks and SUVs are getting heavier and bigger. So not sure what they mean by “we never talk about this with trucks!”
Now how about using iron tires on iron road? And using public transport?
Fuck yeah, public transit - Right in my veins, lets go.
But for right now, there is ZERO public transit infrastructure where I live, which is only about 20-30 minutes to a medium-sized city’s downtown. And when I say ZERO, I mean ZERO. We don’t even have busses here. No trains. NOTHING. We don’t even have sidewalks on most roads - if you want to walk, you’re literally walking in the road. I used to ride a bike to work a long time ago - I can’t even count the number of times I’ve had shit thrown at me by shitbag rednecks as they zoomed past in their lifted pickup trucks.
The local governments’ answer to all this is “If you don’t have a car, fuck you.” Cars are literally the only option. If you don’t have a car or a driver’s license, you better find somebody who does and give them gas money, or consign yourself to paying for Uber/Lyft anytime you want to go anywhere. It’s straight-up dangerous to travel any other way around here.
a fancy new startup will start calling them decentralised pods for personal transportation.
Promise to be revolutionary.
Preforms worse than all know forms of transport so far
Although I agree that using cars on pointless journeys is a waste and not good for the planet, but using public transport isn’t always an option.
If I’m travelling 6 miles in to town then I’m taking the tram, but it really isn’t feasible when travelling 40 miles to work and back 3 times a week. Sure there are trains, but I would have to get up an hour earlier, set off an hour earlier, wait 50 minutes for the train home, and get home two hours later. As I would also have to take the tram 40 minutes to the train station and walk 20 mins before that.
I have a car that I use for work. Outside of that I’m walking or taking public transport.
wait 50 minutes for the train home
Same was in Moscow until Moscow Central Ring was opened and people said “wait, so trains can arrive at 2 minutes interval? Why suburban trains doesn’t do same?”. And that is how D1-D4 were born with 5m peak hours interval instead of few hours of lunch break.
If I’m travelling 6 miles in to town then I’m taking the tram, but it really isn’t feasible when travelling 40 miles to work and back 3 times a week.
“My city is fucking designed wrong so the public transport sucks” isn’t really the rebuttal you think it is. Obviously, the real problem there is your city is fucking designed wrong and the vast majority of people shouldn’t have to be living 40 miles away from work to begin with!
I live in Manchester. Which is an amazing city for public transport. I work in Cheshire which isn’t.
As I said. To take the train. I must walk from my town 20 minutes to the Metrolink, then take that 35-40 minutes into Manchester, then take the train 45 minutes to Cheshire, and then finally walk another 20 minutes to the office. That’s without counting any waiting periods in between. VS 75 minute drive.
We haven’t even factored in it rains 70% of days here. Or even the cost.
You can moan at my boss for not allowing fully WFH. But my point was some people can’t just commute everywhere. Perhaps when I’m more experienced I can find a job closer to home or more remote, but for now this is all I can do.
Edit: I have nothing to rebut to people online. I was merely giving an example. Get off your high horse mate.
whispering more trains
The coolest thing about electric trains is that for all normal usecases, they have an infinite fuel tank.
Some parts of London. I used to live in a building next to three sets of railways: the tube, regular intercity and express/higher speed intercity. That’s a bit too much railway outside the window. And that’s not even the worst location, in the New Cross area some residential buildings are sandwiched between railways on all four sides.
Don’t get me wrong, I love trains in London, so many trains means I don’t need a car, but London has the oldest railway infrastructure in the world and the way they were built in the 19th century makes some areas a total disaster today.
On the other hand, riding a DLR train through a skyscraper is bloody epic!
