I had this question proposed to me recently, and thought I would give it my best shot. I would love any input you guys have on how I can refine this further, make it more clear, more accurate, more succinct, all that.
Also, this is specifically geared towards Marxist-Leninists and Marxist-Leninist-Maoists, and that understanding of dialectics, just to be clear. I’m not interested in the hyper-orthodox understanding of dialectical materialism.
I don’t understand the ins and outs of gravity perfectly, but here goes.
Internal contradiction is what drives all things. This is true for gravity, as much as anything in the world. Gravity could then be analyzed in the framework of the contradictor forces within gravity. What would those forces be?
Well, Einstein’s general relativity is probably the best place to start. I will outline the two contradictory forces below.
Again, I don’t know a ton about the in’s and out’s of it, but the way I see it, there are two sets of contradictions at work in “gravity”.
First, the contradiction of Mass and Spacetime Curvature. We have the force of attraction, where masses attract each other, but contradictory to that, we also have the resistance of compression, where the curvature of space resists this attraction.
Second, we have the contradiction of Inertia and Graviational Pull. Objects resist changes to their existing state of motion, but the force of attraction seeks to change the motion of objects
In the case of general relativity, I would say the first contradiction is the primary one, since that relationship is what defines the attraction between masses, and the resistances between each one. I would say the second contradiction is the secondary one, since it’s still crucial for understanding how gravity works, but, it explains the result of gravitational attraction, rather than the fundamental cause of it.
In the case of the primary contradiction, I would say that the force of attraction is the primary aspect of the contradiction, over resistance to compression, since the attraction of mass to itself is the fundamental reason why spacetime is distorted in the first place. In the secondary contradiction, gravitational pull is of course, the primary aspect there.
Let me know what you think, and thank you.
I’m not completely sure I understand your reasoning, but there’s something I was thinking to myself about Einstein and dialectics.
The Newtownian theory was formed at an age where the newest advancements in philosophy and science were made by seeing the world in mechanical interactions and abstract absolute rules. It was opposed to theological thinking so it allowed for massive progress.
Contemporary philosophy goes beyond the enthusiasm of the first modern scientists, and one of the manifestations of this tendency are Hegelian dialectics. Given the socialist orientation of Einstein, it wouldn’t surprise me that dialectics were a way of thinking that helped him go beyond the previously established necessity of having bodies touch each other to interact. Einstein surprised its time, not by being a man-computer that solves every equation, but by daring to bend concepts like space and time in a manner that shatters the old vision of a world made of simple little gears that activate each other by physical contact.
I think I can most charitably describe what I just read as a wild misappropriation of dialectics and physics. Please stop.
Here’s your homework then: https://revolutionaryleftradio.libsyn.com/size/5/?search=dialectics+deep
nope, i’m too old for podcasts
we had to learn diamat in the USSR, I wish they put more effort into teaching contemporary geopolitics and economy rather than dry philosophical bullshit that has little to do with real world. Looking back, Soviet society was astonishingly politically illiterate and I think this is part of why people so easily let go of achievements of previous generations.
diamat was by far the most hated subject. the boredom was palpable. you don’t need diamat to understand how the world works is what i meant.
dialectical materialism led to the discovery of the laws that govern the development of human society, so no it does not suck.
read “the development of the monist view of history” by Plekhanov, there you will find the importance of dialectical materialism. people for thousands of years have tried to find out what moves history forward and always ended up with “human nature” arguments, until Hegel->Marx managed to identify that production is the main driver of history.
You are in the midst of committing a category error. Dialectics is the model that describes changing historical, social, and philosophical systems and processes. Analogies from physics are frequently used to explain how dialectics work, but that doesn’t mean dialectics govern physics, only that dialectical thinking has historically been inspired by physical processes.
The logical role that dialectics fulfills in social science is fulfilled in natural science by mathematics. So rather than taking the dialectical method and filling it with natural objects and laws at random, you should study the mathematical relationships between measurable quantities and interpret the dynamic expressed in the equations governing them. I know you might not want to hear this because mathematics is hard, but the only way to understand the inner workings of gravity is to sit your ass down with a book about general relativity and do the exercises.
No defending the OP more generally, but here’s Mao in On Contradiction, emphasis mine:
Changes do take place in the geography and climate of the earth as a whole and in every part of it, but they are insignificant when compared with changes in society; geographical and climatic changes manifest themselves in terms of tens of thousands of years, while social changes manifest themselves in thousands, hundreds or tens of years, and even in a few years or months in times of revolution. According to materialist dialectics, changes in nature are due chiefly to the development of the internal contradictions in nature. Changes in society are due chiefly to the development of the internal contradictions in society . . .
This is correct, but it’s not like there is ever a contradiction between mathematical and dialectical methods. Natural scientists only prefer to work with mathematics because their subject is benign enough to admit mathematical descriptions yielding precise, quantitative results, while social scientists need dialectics because their mathematical models suffer from crippling vagueness and complexity and are quickly outdated. Where mathematics can describe a system to which dialectics happen to also apply, e.g. phase transitions, it naturally produces models that mirror the dialectic because they both describe the same thing.
Yes you need to learn about science from scientists, but it’s not wrong to see dialectics in science. Like others, you are mistaking historical for dialectical materialism. Dialectical materialism is Marx and Engels’ scientific world outlook, historical materialism is that theory applied to the social sphere - social science.
It is right to see dialectics in science, but it appears after the fact as a consequence of observation and theory rather than as an epistemological requirement. Certain scientific theories, such as relativity, do not admit a dialectical interpretation due to a lack of actors to play out the dialectical process, or of contradictions between them.
I think I agree. You shouldn’t necessarily be looking for the Fichtean thesis and antithesis or whatever in every single situation. Just recognize that there are contradictions and interconnections and change is a necessity.
Caudwell’s Crisis in Physics does some of this but for quantum mechanics. You’d love the read.
Really its done science first approach then dialectics to examine the environment your project’s developed in for anything weird that will diminish understanding, then fix and repeat since there’s no such thing as perfection in reality. You don’t go in with dialectics first, that won’t do you good and just make you overly rigid without proper knowledge and limit your understanding of the situation at hand leading to silly errors. Gotta ground yourself in what is known of reality first.
It is neat for thought experiments for project design too and is a way to break out of the ‘its x or y or a mere continuum’ to noticing 'gee this doesn’t fit my data nor my problem, necessity v sufficiency for instance develops from this line of approach (and others, there are many tools in the tool kit, dia is just one) and is beyond helpful in life sciences.
The comments in this thread has made me realise I need to read the following:
- In Defence Of Materialism by Plekhanov
- Dialectical Biologist by Lewontin and Lewin
And re-read the Red Sails articles:
The Dialectical Biologist is pretty great, but keep in mind it’s a little outdated, and they didn’t know Lysenko was vindicated.
Thank you - epigenetics? If you have reading material to share on rethinking Lysenkoism in the 21st century I would be grateful.
I’m not an expert on the topic, but I listened to this, and someone who works in agriculture elaborated how China uses some of his discoveries today. How Lysenko was the guy that got people planting potato eyes instead of the whole potato etc.
