Trump was a lying liar and Biden was a hoarse doddering old man who got lost mid sentence.
On MSNBC, Joy Reid pointed out that Americans want their president to be an avatar. They want a commander who looks strong and tough, and we saw that when the populace couldn’t get behind Al Gore (who she credited as being a great mind) who acted more like a policy wank than Bush, who felt more like a (New England) cowboy.
Earlier in the week, I caught a bit of Steve Bannon’s radio show where he railed about how we need to eliminate the deep state – the Praetorian Guard – that indicted Trump and props up Biden. At the time, I wondered who this Praetorian Guard was supposed to have assassinated, who was bribing them, and which combat actions they’d fought in. If nothing else, I think this debate proves there is no deep state/Praetorian Guard because they’d have assassinated Biden last week during his preparation rather than let him get on stage.
Look, in any large enough group, there are going to be some incompetent people and some competent bad actors. We have to vote for the people who will admit to that and get rid of them. The U.S. is going to have to choose between a leader who tries to install good people to run the government and one who intends to install people bent on dismantling the government and giving loyalty to the leader alone. Even IN the debate, Trump asked Biden, “Who did you fire?” – that you have to fire bad people … but this was in reference to firing the General who claimed to have heard Trump call veterans “suckers and losers”. I can’t prove Trump did or didn’t say that, but I do remember Trump skipping the memorial ceremony.
Trump said Charlottesville never happened. I remember it. Trump said Nancy Pelosi admitted responsibility for January 6th. She did not. Trump said the ex-governor of Virginia was not just for late term abortion, but infanticide. He is not. His lies were too numerous to count.
Biden lost track of his thoughts early on and blurted out “We finally beat Medicare.” Trump said, “He did beat Medicare and he beat it to death.” Biden said Trump had sex with a porn star while (uh, uhm stumble) his wife was pregnant. Trump asserted he did not. Biden called Trump a criminal. Trump said Biden would be the criminal when his term was over (not exact words).
It wasn’t good in any direction. It was ugly. Through it, though, Trump maintained his TV-personality persona while Biden generally looked infirm.
Personally, I want a deep state that does things like: build roads, enforce food labeling laws so that the box accurately reflects the food inside, eventually hires enough judges to have a fast turn-around time for family court and the like. It should be really hard to fire them when they are speaking the truth as the understand it and easy to fire them if they are distorting the truth. Alas, I worry that Joy Reid is correct and the U.S. will vote for the guy they think is most like John Wayne.
We have to vote for the people who will admit to that and get rid of them. The U.S. is going to have to choose between a leader who tries to install good people to run the government and one who intends to install people bent on dismantling the government and giving loyalty to the leader alone.
I largely share your thoughts. I honestly expected Biden to at least be prepared enough to counter the usual Trump tactics of making things up and using strong words to impress his base while deflecting blame or critical questions.
Instead, we got Trump basically having free rein to appear strong with simple (and wrong) answers to complex questions, twisting the truth to support his positions and straight up lying and deflecting when finally confronted with something.
I’m not a big fan of Biden, but IMO he’s the obvious, rational choice out of two candidates way past their prime - if you’re into rationality over the antics of a con artist.
But this isn’t a fair fight, and Biden isn’t the showman Trump managed to be today. Biden was barely audible and mostly on the defensive while appearing weak, Trump was the opposite of that. I can’t imagine any Trump voter switching teams after the debate, but I can image more than a few more emotionally motivated democrats second guessing their choice.
I don’t really think one debate decides who people vote for. Plus you have the electoral college. So you were fucked since forever, you just never noticed. But please vote against Trump because you probably don’t get to vote again if he wins, that has a big influence on the world too
I largely share your thoughts. I honestly expected Biden to at least be prepared enough to counter the usual Trump tactics of making things up and using strong words to impress his base while deflecting blame or critical questions.
He can’t because he’s 2637361873 years old and can’t think fast enough to have actual replies. The rules of the debate were no notes and no communication with staff so Biden had to rely on what little working brain cells he has left to form responses and recall history. I also wouldn’t be the slightest bit surprised to learn both him and Trump have been using stimulants, but only Biden stopped talking them for the debate since there was so much talking about that beforehand.
It was an absolute travesty that there was no fact checking from the completely useless moderators.
This is literally 2016 repeating itself.
I really hate being right about the worst fucking stuff.
Biden should never have been put up again, and his performance is gonna enthuse absolutely zero non-political-junkie normies to vote for him.
With states being as voter-suppressed/gerrymandered (or however you prefer to describe the electoral college bullshit) as they are, Dems cannot afford to be slightly ahead. Hillary was slightly ahead. You have to be WAY ahead, and Biden’s not.
Oh, this is WAY worse than 2016.
Before, people said that Biden was fine. Now, they’re saying, “There’s just no way to change, so we have to accept it.”
Bullshit. This is supposed to be a democracy, and every volunteer and staffer and voter and activist and voter needs to rattle the bars of the cage that the Democratic party is trying to put us in. Do. Not. Let. Biden. Do this to us.
Do I honestly have any hope as a trans woman. I feel beyond doomed. I’m in a liberal area of a liberal state but like will that even matter at this point. Am I fucked 😔
I think if you’re in a Blue state, you’ll be safe. It’s the folks in Blue enclaves in Red states, like Austin, El Paso, Atlanta, that I’m really worried for.
My wife and ai keep talking about this. We plan to flee our deep south red state, but it fills us with survivor’s guilt knowing we have the means to do so, and so so many just do not.
I do not believe you are fucked. I also know the feelings of doom. I have been expressing gallows humor to my peers about how I will probably end up on some train to some camp.
Times will be hard. Now is a good time to develop survival skills and community. We need all the horizontal power we can get to overcome hierarchical power.
Canadian here.
I am not looking forward to this very much. If Trump gets into power, our local politicians are going to crank it into overdrive. They already pander to that demographic, so it’s just going to get worse. Not nearly as bad as in America, but nobody wants to live under bad leadership and have their safety taken from them.
I don’t really understand how we got to this point. But it just seems like all these grifters came out from the woodwork and are just being crazy in plain sight with no consequences now.
I’m sure they were always there, but I don’t feel like it was nearly as bad as it has been. Maybe it’s just recency bias clouding my memory, but like… dang.
I would love to see some sort of ranked ballot voting or other method of voting come into place for every democracy. No vote should go to waste because of having to pick between the lesser of two crappy choices.
It has gotten worse. The steady decline of decency in political discourse took a precipitous dive with Trump. Canada is always out of sync with the US political pendulum, PP is our inevitable swing and it’s fucking depressing to watch ignorance and bigotry be celebrated so confidently.
I agree with a lot of what you’re saying, but it’s easy to choose the better of two choices here. Debate or not, how is it even a question who to vote for when one guy is openly a fascist?
I think you’re out of touch.
Fascism isn’t unpopular. It’s very popular when people are feeling desperate.
I keep hearing people say stuff like this: He can’t win! He’s so fascist! He can’t win, Biden did such a good job if you actually look at the facts!
That’s not how elections work. People vote based on what they think will satisfy their interests, and a lot voters don’t see any reason to vote for Biden, and so they’ll stay home. People don’t need to vote for Trump for Trump to win. They just need to give in, and Biden is a “give in” machine. He’s poison to voter hope or enthusiasm, and he’s going to lose if he doesn’t get off the ticket.
If we want to take the threat of Trump seriously, no more hiding our heads in the sand.
Sorry, I think I did misread your comment, apologies.
I do realize it’s growing in popularity, I am not suggesting anyone hide their head in the sand, though.
I was trying to say that this narrative of “were doomed” and “theyre both bad choices” feeds into this problem. Its more false equivalency, and discourages voting. I realize you weren’t saying this, and that this IS what people are saying. But I still find it gobsmacking that people are seriously saying it’s hard to choose.
I think you might be misunderstanding my intent. I agree lol there really is no question, which is the better option.
Some people still might vote independent, or they might want to vote independent, but rather vote Democrat because they feel if they don’t, they’re not helping to fix the problem.
This is common in Canada as well. Having a ranked ballot or some sort of choice voting system would allow people to pick a primary or secondary choice in the event that their first pick doesn’t have enough votes. That way, a vote wouldn’t be left out, and everyone gets a say regardless of their first pick.
I’m shocked that the guy who has handlers to make sure he doesn’t wander off had a sub-par debate. /s
These two candidates are there because they’re useful idiots for the billionaire class. Neither of them give a damn about anyone, and it’s probably past time to stop pretending Trump 2.0 isn’t happening and have an exit strategy.
Generally speaking, if the oligarchs don’t think you’ll be useful to them, you don’t make it far enough up in the food chain to be considered a candidate. They don’t play the game of “Maybe this person will do what I tell them once they’re in office,” they play of the game of “Only people I know will do what I say will get onto the ballot.”
