Yeah universities should be about academics. Not sports. In fact, Universities, in my opinion, should just be banned from HAVING sports teams. Do that shit outside of school lmao. You shouldn’t be getting ACADEMIC scholarships because you can… “throw ball good”.
Counterpoint: universities exist to teach young people to be competent, well rounded members of society, including exposure to quality academics, music, art and sport. If you just want job training, go to trade school; if you just want academics, go to the library.
That’s what high school does (or should do).
That counter point is a classist view that id all too common in america. Not saying you are classist by having that view. But that a system based on that view, which america is, is classist.
Universities have historically been institutions of class structure, and not just in the US. I doubt that will change any time soon, and can’t honestly think of how it could. Tertiary education requires that a person give up some part of their potentially-working day to activities that don’t pay rent or put food on the table. Nevermind direct costs of education, if you don’t pay people to be students, then it will continue to reinforce class structure.
Personally, I think it’s in the state’s interest to encourage every individual to pursue as much education, of whatever form, as they choose. Tertiary education through university, college, or trade school ought to be without direct cost, and we ought to have enough social safety net to secure people while they pursue it. Do that, and some new structure will develop so employers can identify upper-class candidates, like unpaid internships.
So before I get into this, know that I’m biased as a colligate sport fan and a former NCAA athlete. But this is a bad take. Sports provide all sorts of benefit both internally and externally for the university. It is true that some athletic budgets are insane, and for what it’s worth I agree that the salaries that get paid are insane. But this is simply the price of an arms war. These colleges want the best facilities and coaches. And it’s not just for the dick measuring contest, though make no mistake that is absolutely part of it. But all sorts of studies show that general contributions and academic donations in particular increase with athletic team success, notably championship winning teams. People like to belong to a community, and sports fandom is one of the most tried and true sources of community. Plus the tv contacts for the so called revenue sports would make an oil tycoon blush. The presidents of these schools continue to invest in these programs because they continually prove to be an excellent roi. And I firmly believe that these same presidents know more than either of us about running their universities. And all of that is aside from what these sports provide to the most important stakeholders in a college, it’s enrollees. Again recognizing my bias here, but the only reason I made it through school to get my 2 degrees that I use professionally was the sports team I trained with. These teams provide structure to the college life, something that can be hard to maintain as you essentially start a new life. Plus, sport and exercise prove to boost academic performance both on the short and long timescale. Most institutions report higher average GPAs in the athletic department than the general population. Ever notice that elite academic institutions also tend to have elite athletic programs? This isnt always obvious as it’s often non revenue sports outside of the state schools that are in the aforementioned dick measuring contest. And even schools that aren’t know for athletic or academics will still tend to offer intramural sports as again they are a massive boon for the students but I feel like at this point I’m straying from the original point. All in all these athletic programs are good for both the institution as a whole, and those that study at them.
tl;dr Sports good for college
Plus the tv contacts for the so called revenue sports would make an oil tycoon blush. The presidents of these schools continue to invest in these programs because they continually prove to be an excellent roi.
From my understanding, all that money goes back to the sport’s team, not the university. It’s a side hussle. If the money went back to the university, it would at least make sense.
It depends on the school.
Most fans don’t realize that not only do athletic departments pay the university market rate for the tuition, room and board of its student athletes, but also the upcharge for out-of-state students.
At nearly one-third of the schools I polled back in 2012 for my book, the university took a specified percentage of each donation made to the athletic department.
At many universities I polled, the university and athletic department split licensing revenue 50/50. So, even if the sweatshirt sold in the bookstore is specifically branded for the football program, that money is divided between the university and athletics.
I would agree with you but the statistics are so far out of proportion in America right now. Across the country you have many schools who can barely fund educational departments while continuously increasing sports funding. This happened at my college recently, several times. We lost several history classes due to the football team requiring more budget.
So what you have instead is this awful cycle where they make so much more money from investing in sports than education, so they raise the education prices to fund both. Yet the government is subsidizing or at least fronting the cost for students. So now you have even less pressure to continue being an actual college. They begin to chase sports to the moon at the cost of all else.
Then you have the actual effect of sports players on the college itself where they attend. I know some hard working athletes with legitimate degrees, but those athletes are the first to tell me that the rest of the athletes are there for worthless degrees. So now you have to account for the fact that athletes are an investment in facilities and arenas and departments as well. Further skewing the purposes of the college.
The whole system is beyond broken and colleges shouldn’t have to depend on anything except education costs to survive
And this is where I absolutely will cross the aisle and agree with you. I obviously care for sport and think it can be massively beneficial. But I too see some of these smaller schools breaking their own back (and bank) trying to get some of that p5 football money. The school I am a fan of won’t even blink at a 7 or 8 figure bill for a sports complex upgrade, because they absolutely will make that money back. But the school I attended tried something similar (way smaller bill) and there was widespread outrage amongst the student population and rightfully so. This gets into that dick measuring contest I mentioned and I fully agree with you, that should not and can not be allowed to negatively impact academics. Sports are a net positive, but like all things not named heroin, they should be pursued in moderation.
Even so your ability to ingest new data and change your opinion should be commended!
there’s a lot of things wrong with college sports but kids getting a chance to get higher education that otherwise might not is absolutely not one of them.
Yes, but that opportunity should be granted based on economic need and a demonstrated ability to work hard, not based on athletic ability, because athletic ability is unrelated to your ability to study economics or physics or philosophy.
Just my personal experience, but I’ve found that the ability to work hard and push through doing things you don’t want to do is very much transferable between sports and academics.
good thing economic and academic scholarships also exist. there’s an absolutely tiny number of athletic scholarships and athletes compared to the total student body in every single university. removing the athletic scholarships and athletes will only hurt the athletes and not help anyone else.
Nah, it isn’t sport’s fault that academics hasn’t found a marketable avenue for spectators to appreciate the craft. There needs to be more innovation in competitive aseptic technique or fantasy math league.
atheletics have been a vital part of the education system since schools have been a thing
Bad take with no argument to justify it.
Sports are good for universities. Monetarily it’s easy to see why, but it’s also academically good too. Having sports teams builds a sense of community for the school that will bolster fraternizing between otherwise separate groups of people. This leads to students forming broader webs of connections than they otherwise would, which gives better outcomes after graduation since they know more things about more of the world, which is the point of going to a university.
Well that’s news to all the universities outside the US who manage to cope with just educating people and not needing 100,000 seater stadiums. People fraternise on their own. They don’t need enormous sports budgets to do it.
Our sports culture in the US is unlike any other country in the world and so comparing it to other countries is a pointless endeavor.
In fact pretty much all schools in the US all the way down to the smallest college field sports teams because it’s essential in advertising and marketing the school and recruiting students (either by recruiting students who are familiar with and fans of the sports team and the larger schools or by recruiting students who still want to compete in organized sports for the smaller schools)
Sports coaches are often compensated the most and athletes often get the most valuable scholarships because they generate the most marketing and advertising value and in cases of the highest level teams, make TV revenue back for the university.
If you want to put your complaints somewhere, complain about how public universities have to compete with each other for lucrative out of state and international students to meet their budgets because they are underfunded from the government.
But culturally, in the US, sports are how (a plurality of) people fraternize. Even our most prestigious universities, like the world-famous Harvard, has a football team.
Is this backed by research? Assuming any if these things are true, are there any other/better/cheaper ways to get these same results?
I am still in university, and don’t play sports, and am glad that my school participates in NCAA sports
I can’t actually. Someone apparently really like watch ball get throw far
I’m not sure if I remember correctly but don’t most athletic programs not pay for themselves? Don’t they require a portion of the tuition from non athletics students to continue functioning and in that case wouldn’t it mean that there is in fact less education happening due to the athletic program?
https://www.goacta.org/news-item/most_ncaa_division_i_athletic_departments_take_subsidies/
https://www.knightcommission.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/jones.pdf
Just because a portion of funding doesn’t make it back to the classroom for other students, a university is more than its academics. And the gyms and training centers built for the athletic program can often be used by other students at schools where the athletic program isn’t popular enough to pay for itself.
I’m just going to tuck this in here: https://fiscal.wa.gov/Staffing/Salaries
It isn’t just the highest paid university staff it is often highest paid state employees
UW and WSU football programs aren’t even good, why are they paying them that much?
This would be far more convincing coming from someone that isn’t an evangelical religious nutjob teaching at a school with barely enough students to field an American football team (yes I know it’s Australia) much less be competitive in any major sports.
Controversial thesis: if you teach creationism in college as a factual accounting of history, then it’s not a university. It’s a cult with a side hustle in tertiary education.
A society which charges students to acquire knowledge values neither.
That seems like an Utopian view you’re not paying for the knowledge but for the resources to learn and accreditation. Universities, professors, etc don’t pay for themselves. Even when University is “free” you are paying it through taxes - which is still fine by me.
I don’t agree, though, with the prices practiced in the US, that’s just a way of restraining the population. Where I’m from, going to college is not expensive, I cannot fathom having to pay those ridiculous prices.
Paying via taxes is not charging students.
You do not pay taxes based on your use of public education or use of any other public service but based on your income and/or wealth.
If you do not make sufficient income as a student to pay taxes or enough taxes to cover the cost of your education your public education is in fact free to you.
What I meant is someone has to pay for it, it’s not free lunch. You’re right that the students don’t pay it through taxes, but someone has to. Myself as a working person do pay for others through taxes
Edit: as people seem to have failed to see my point: I’m glad my taxes help pay for other’s studies
I never claimed education shouldn’t be paid for, nor that resources shouldn’t be applied to its provision, but a society which levels the financial burden on the student is imposing an artificial and indefensible barrier on their collective progress.
Further, education can only be framed as expensive when it is not appropriately valued as the investment it is.
Finally, taxes don’t pay for anything when the funding originates from the issuing entity of a fiat currency.
but a society which levels the financial burden on the student is imposing an artificial and indefensible barrier on their collective progress.
I absolutely agree with this.
Finally, taxes don’t pay for anything when the funding originates from the issuing entity of a fiat currency.
Not sure I understand your point
I’m so sick of this “nOtHiNg is fReE” retort. Yeah, no shit it isn’t. Most of us are aware of that. Like others have said, what we mean is taxes should be the means by which we pay for education. Taxes paying for education is not utopian. It exists as a means for paying for education in the USA already, K-12. I personally don’t think it is a stretch to change higher education to a tax drive model. Even in a world where it is “free” for the students there will still be people who don’t go, so it’s not like we have to collect taxes to account for all persons. College is not for everyone. Also if you try to use current college tuition as an excuse for it costing the tax payers too much, I don’t want to hear it. It is already well established that higher education costs have balloned faster that other products and services in the market and I think that is a symptom of the stupid profit models of modern universities and colleges. From personal experience at university, you get treated like a line item on there accounting sheets rather than a student and that alone is a huge factor in the enshittification of higher education.
Reminds me of a random quip about how American universities are real estate holding companies with sports team subsidiaries that also, on occasion, also award academic degrees.