New green text drop.
–be me high functioning autistic, struggle with social ques.
–begin highschool, theres a cute girl.
–decide to be extra friendly, take every available moment to be beside her and friendly.
– 2 months go by, still doesnt notice my intent. Decided to be blunt.
– tell her i like her, romatically. Says cool and walks away,
– autism engage.mp3
– do the same shit for 2 weeks
– she tells me she want to be friends, I respect her wishs tho saddened.
– walk with her in-between classes like all my other friends.
– she calls me creepy and to stop stalking her. I explain im not stalking im just being a friend and just enjoy talking inbetween class.
– 2 weeks go by, she doesnt say anything about me being “creepy”
– go to B lunch where i sit by myself cause friends have A lunch.
– phone buzz.mp3
– random number of text message with photo of me 20 seconds ago at lunch table.
– panic issues, i message who dis. They reply, you dont need to know stop stalking (girls name). I explain its not stalking if i go up and say hello and talk to them.
– they dont listen, they tell me to stop being creepy. I ask again who this was. No reply…
– i tell them ill get the cops involved if they dont reval themselfs.
– lunch ends, goes to math class. Asks (girl) what she know about random texter.
– (girl) says no clue
– day ends, sleep like shit because of creepy MF.
– finally get response, im (girls friend)
– i sit at lunch table following day with her and ask whats this is about.
– she says (girl) says im a creepy stalker that follows her around and stares at her. And that (girl) asked her to do this. I explain i like talking to her, and she engages back in a mutal conversion. And that im autistic and zone out.
– she still insists im a creep
– confront (girl) in math class “Why did you lie about this, just tell me you dont want to be friends” Girl refuses to talk to me and spreads rumors of me being a creep.
– MFW i dont miss highschool dating.
TLDR- women gaslights autism into stalking and give lasting insecurity issues.
Creepy guy uses excuse of autism to justify being creepy despite clear verbal instructions and explanation.
Autism is not an excuse to be act however you want, people give you leeway not free lichence. Failing to pick up cues is one thing but you don’t need emotional intelligence to know that following someone around like that is not acceptable behavior. None of my medically diagnosed autistic friends stalk girls and they’d all understand clear and direct instructions.
– she calls me creepy and to stop stalking her. I explain im not stalking im just being a friend and just enjoy talking inbetween class.
This one is the part where he should have stopped talking to her.
I suggest you reread, i do agree autism is not blanket excuse. However i did explain in detail that i was not stalking, or following her around in a creepy manor. I did this to ALL my friends, and all interactions where consentual. I did not harras or berate anyone who didnt want to talk. Many interactions included the phrase “do you want to chat on the way to class” to which i forgot to add for better context.
Also for better clarity (Girl) never said to fuck off (Girls friend) did.
If (girl) wanted me to fuck off she should have self advocated and say i dont want to be friends with you.
Because as stated “shes didnt want to be Romantic and just wanted to be friends” to which i did stop saying she looked niced and other things that could be takin as Romantic, and simply had small talk, asking about her day, talking about teachers and upcoming assignments.
Also i must add using autism as a lump sum to cover up creepy shit is not right. But i find rather moronic in your use case as you lump “all my autistic friends dont do that”
May i remind you that autism is a spectrum, not one person is the exact as the other. And added context would be beneficial if they were also high functioning. Comparing people on the spectrum is rarely ever apple to apples. “My one autistic friend starts screaming and crying when his peas touch his corn on his plate” Compared to “My friend misses social ques and struggles with communication”
Also via wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-functioning_autism
“High-functioning autism was historically an autism classification where a person exhibits no intellectual disability, but may experience difficulty in communication, emotion recognition, expression, and social interaction.”
Good day,
Yes I very well understand its a spectrum but that doesn’t mean you can write a blank pass for yourself and claim ‘it’s just a special aspect of my autism so I can’t be blamed for objectively bad actions on my part’
If you have difficulty understanding emotion then use logic and analytical thinking to help. and to help you understand I’ll be very clear and direct - I am telling you this because it’s practical and useful advice which will improve the quality of your life.
Deaf children have to be taught that farts make noise, likewise in think maybe you don’t realize how obviously manipulative you’re being in telling this story and how you’re arguing about it - this is what will drive people away and make your life harder, like the deaf kid might not know that people can hear him coming but the noise is loud to other people, you might feel that people can’t tell you’re trying to be manipulative about it and logic her into having to be nice to you but to her and her friend it’s as loud as a moaning orgasm.
Logically you can devise simple heuristics to determine appropriate actions, s good one is to consider the actions of the other person and how they compare to the easiest path towards their possible intent. For example in any conversation the person will either want to continue it or end it, however they likely will want to remain polite and kind so won’t be pushy or rude - are they adding to the conversation, continuing it, picking it up when it flags or are they giving short answers, mostly answering rarely asking?
The way you describe your conversations with her sounds like you’re trapping her with her desire to be polite. For example ‘do you want to talk to me’ is a question most people wouldn’t ask because it forces the person to pick beteeen two potentially negative options; yes or rudeness. It’s why you’d generally hear it couched with a soft exit or left unsaid and replaced with an open invitation like ‘oh maths is next, the homework was so boring’ allowing them to end the conversation with something like ‘yeah…’ or start it with ‘yeah, I didn’t even read all the questions it was so boring…’
Of course it’s not an exact science but it’s very easy to see trends, if you saw a graph with all the conversation trajectories overlaid and it was all one person starting them and the other person taking the path of least resistance and rudeness towards ending them then you wouldn’t need to know anything else to know she’s not interested.
From her perspective you’re seeking her out and trapping her in conversations that she can’t politely get out of - especially because she likely doesn’t want to hurt your feelings and likely has genuine affection for you as a human and a friend - however that affection does not mean she wants you stalking her or constantly popping up with ‘hi, do you want to talk to me’ traps.
So to go back to where we started, you can say that you weren’t being creepy but what you mean is you didn’t intend to be creepy. Seeking her out and trapping her in conversations feels creepy to her, to her it feels annoying and awkward because she doesn’t want to be direct but you push her into it time and time again then even when she does you make it more awkward by trying to litigate it and argue your point and telling her that she’s wrong about her feelings - people hste that, I bet you would too.
And here’s an elephant in the room I’ll make explicit because I know you might overlook it otherwise, when you’re so ready with a link to Wikipedia explaining how your actions are justified by your autism it makes it very obvious that you’re using this to explain why she’s wrong to feel like she does. This is one of the many reasons that she’s uncomfortable saying no to loaded questions like ‘do you want to talk to me’ no one wants to look like the assholw who’s rude to the special needs kid. Yeah that’s a hard pill but it’s reality, if you want her to think of you as a nice, interesting and not creepy guy then you have to act like that - you can’t use logic and manipulative conversational tricks to force her into emotions.
And yeah don’t worry if you try a bit people will let you off a huge amount of mistakes and cringe but not because you’re autistic, just because you’re interesting and fun to know without being too much of a burden or bore.
As an autistic woman who dates and befriends a lot of autistic people… everyone here was autistic. This is why people with autism really need to learn communication skills and how to respect boundaries. Given that this was high school, that compounds the issues (high schoolers have very little social skills).
The first boundary violation was him telling her that he liked her every day for 2 weeks. Like even telling someone once can cross emotional boundaries, doing it every day is a LOT. For a high schooler. I am pretty nice to homeless people and sometimes they tell me they love me. None of them have done it every day for two weeks. That’s odd af behavior. When she tried to communicate that, she did it badly (but really who ever is in this situation??), and OP disagreed with her feelings (not a debate) and basically said he’d keep walking with her because he wanted to. That’s the second boundary violation. Then keeps violating boundaries after they amplify hostile behaviors. It’s like petting a rattlesnake and getting bit, despite the snake warning you repeatedly to go away.
Autism, OCD, and low serotonin can be comorbid, and OCD in particular is associated with stalking and obsessive behaviors. Not every person with OCD will stalk ofc though.
There’s already kind of a “shortage” of autistic women who are willing to date men, and then they run into guys like this and get sworn off it. The lack of communication is the main problem, but also it’s hard for people to have similar special interests. One of my friends dated a guy who started to develop a special interest in taxidermy and made a long cloak of rat skins including the tail. It did not smell good or look good. She is a vegan veterinarian. It was a huge conflict.
But also, honey, you’re not looking like you used to. Maybe you’re not worth the fight you once were…
If I had a dollar for every girl that found me unattractive, girls would find me attractive.
Women - “No means no”
Men - Stops pursuing a girl after she says no
Women - “No not like that!”
cracks knuckles Let’s piss some people off tonight.
This is sound mating strategy for homo sapiens.
Take yourself out of generational context. Forget religion, social mores and written history. Think back 100,000 years. Think game theory. Think only in terms of selfish genes.
A promiscuous female is a loss for the male. Whose kid is he raising? Massive waste for the male if it’s not his genes.
(Insert note regarding the hypothesis as to why our dicks are shovel shaped. Add observations of male mammals killing their rival’s offspring and note how we see this in modern men.)
A child requires an extraordinary output of time and energy, for both parties, far more than other mammals. Childbirth is also extraordinarily dangerous for big-brained primate females; big heads, helpless infancy and so forth.
The female needs her mate to stick around and care for her and her child during pregnancy through early child rearing. After all, she’s going to be the very definition of handicapped for a couple of years. (Insert note regarding the hypothesis that grandmothers partially fill this role and why women live longer.) If she hasn’t been picky and chosen a solid mate, her and her child may well die.
Now the male has to push back against this resistance. If he’s not the type to push, he doesn’t make babies, pass on his genes. To put a finer point on it, if he’s not attracted enough to effort the chase, he may be a slut who will run off. Refer to previous paragraph.
tl;dr: Evolution selected for hard-to-get females and pushy males.
I know you’re trying to make an argument, but your word choice and way of presenting the arguments is giving off major incel vibes.
I expected this response because I frequently used the word “female”. This is a biology discussion, not a sociological one. I tried to take care to set and keep the tone scientific and not “in common parlance”. And perhaps I failed.
As to “incel”, I’ve had 50+ lovers in this life, the very opposite of involuntarily celibacy. What this says about my psychological needs, well, I’ve been thinking on that lately, not liking my own reflection. Thank god I’m with my wife and those days seem at a close.
As to the science of my post, I welcome challenges! Challenges to my ideas are how I learn.
Add observations of male mammals killing their rival’s offspring and note how we see this in modern men.
No, we don’t see this. Men do not routinely kill their rivals’ offspring and, if they did, the mother would want them locked up.
Most of your logic implicitly assumes that males and females pair up. The game theory is quite different otherwise. What makes you think that our ancestors 100,000 years ago did this, when you’re explicitly comparing them to mammal species that don’t?
You succeeded at line 1, I’ll give you that.
Yeah, this is some evolutionary psychology shit. A subject that is pure bullshit, we simply do not know enough about a biological history, or how the brain developed, and works, to truly, accurately, ascribe psychological phenomenon directly to evolutionary considerations.
Relevant XKCD https://xkcd.com/775/
The lack of evidence is one thing, but his argument contradicts itself.
He says that:
- the heavy investment that women make in their offspring means that they go to great lengths to make sure that their partners are committed
- we observe modern men killing their (the women’s) offspring in the expectation that those women will turn around and have children with them instead.
Apparently, the women failed to select fathers who would stick around to defend their offspring, and they’re happy to mate with men who kill the children that they have invested so much in. This strategy is clearly bad, so evolution would select against it.
What you’re essentially describing here is evolutionary psychology. Now, I won’t go as far as some have to say that it’s an entirely bunk field of study, primarily because I’m nowhere near qualified to make those claims. But I will say that it’s a field that has received a lot of criticism for being full of poor science and “just-so” stories without a basis in good science, and that even if some aspects of the field are valid, it has frequently been misapplied in popscience to promote incel/alt-right worldviews.
The bunk part is the overconfidence in the conclusion, not necessarily the ponderance.
Because people are more than someone else’s summation and over-simplification of their evolutionary history.
If they weren’t, then social evolution wouldn’t exist. Hence, the alt-right adoption.
That’s the bunk, that, and they were being a total dildo.
Now imagine this: Every now and again a species makes a great evolutionary leap. Men respecting women’s decisions and women being honest about what they want could be the next stage of human evolution.
We can change and history and genetics show that our cultural choices really do influence our evolution.
Others have hammered on how incorrect this is but I do want to point one thing out
the female needs her mate to stick around and care for her and her child during pregnancy through early child rearing
This is assuming a 1950s style atomic family unit which is an extremely new concept. Evidence suggests our shared pre-agriculture ancestors lived in small hunter gatherer groups. These groups would share responsibilities, like a family, but not necessarily all be closely related. “it takes a village to raise a child” and everything.
