9 points

This has been posted before, but it’s still very very relevant.

I’ll note that a bricklayer isn’t “unskilled” to anyone. Apart from that, I think this is fairly accurate overall.

In addition, I’ll note that “class” is also a myth. “Upper”/“middle”/“lower” classes don’t actually exist. It’s just a term to refer to people who are seen to be more/less affluent, and has no bearing on reality.

The only “class” I care about is the bottom 90%, struggling to make ends meet. The top 1% can go fuck themselves. As far as I’m concerned, it’s not a class war, it’s a 90% vs 1% war, and we have the numbers.

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-1 points

I’ll note that a bricklayer isn’t “unskilled” to anyone. Apart from that, I think this is fairly accurate overall.

I lay a few bricks in the toilet every day. Doesn’t take any skill to do that.

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25 points

Depends what you mean by “unskilled labour”. Literally no skills? Yeah that doesn’t exist, and is impossible to exist as even the most simple of motor tasks like walking are learned and therefore “skills”.

If by “unskilled labour” you mean jobs that require no formal training and your average person could be trained up well enough to not need to be constantly trained/supervised in a week or two? Then there’s lots of those. Maybe “low skilled labour” is slightly better but still a bit misleading (you still develop skills and improve in those jobs, it’s just you’re “good enough” at it in a relatively short period of time).

Because capitalism, when you’re easily replaceable it means the employer can shop around more and find people willing you did the job for less so the pay is low. You aren’t paid by how hard you work, but by the “value” you bring and how hard it is to find someone else.

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7 points
*

Yeah, I’d argue ‘unskilled labour’ or ‘low skilled labour’ doesn’t necessarily mean you should be paid poverty wages.

Imo that’s a regulation/policy issue, not a capitalism issue, but I’m happy for someone to talk me through why that isn’t the case.

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5 points

The problem is that you aren’t paid by the value you bring. We have to fight tooth and nail to get even a fraction of what we’re worth, even in skilled jobs, and there are many executives that realized that they’re better off instilling fear of firing into people than they are worrying about whether or not someone can be replaced. Hell, most of them don’t even have the barest respect for senior workers and will happily replace them with a less skilled, but also cheaper, worker to save a buck in the short-term.

The concept of supply and demand in jobs has died because we lack the ability to enforce it. It’s completely fucked up. I heard someone say recently that it shouldn’t be a “job market” but a “labour market” and I fully agree. They need us, most executives are just dead-weight with money, so why the fuck do they get to be the beggars and the choosers?

Ultimately, if we were paid based on the value we bring then CEOs wouldn’t be getting millions of dollars of bonuses while laying people off to try to keep their own worthless jobs for just one more quarter. If we were paid based on the value we bring then millions of essential workers would be in a much better position but instead they can’t even get raises that match inflation. Like, if your workplace doesn’t, at the very least, give you an inflation-based adjustment to your salary before ever even getting to a true raise then that place is taking you for a ride.

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3 points

Like, if your workplace doesn’t, at the very least, give you an inflation-based adjustment to your salary before ever even getting to a true raise then that place is taking you for a ride.

Do places actually do this? Pay rises in line with inflation first? I’ve never heard of this :(

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3 points

Basically never! My roommate’s did, which is super nice to hear, but when I asked my last place they told me “that’s not how inflation works” because they’re dumb as rocks and half as useful.

In reality there’s no “cultural difference” nonsense, it’s just basic math, but most managers and executives are fragile, selfish men who never had to learn how to communicate their feelings or recieve even the lightest, most gentle criticism.

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2 points

I mean I get where you’re coming from, but you don’t get to set your own worth: your worth–and the worth of anything you try to sell–is only what someone is willing to pay for it. The only way to fix this is regulation and proper care for setting and maintaining wage rules or just cutting the shit and going to a UBI system.

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1 point

Yea that’s that first bit is exactly the kind of bullshit that gets repeated enough times to make people believe that it’s true but it’s total bullshit just like “just get another job if you don’t like it.” It’s very half-way correct but still missing some major nuance that you admit can be tackled with regulation. I know you’re just repeating a well-worn phrase but it’s entirely rooted in pushing the blame onto individuals to minimize their power.

If the companies can’t afford to give their employees a basic, even somewhat dignified quality of life then that means that the company is not deserving of existence and their leadership is clearly unqualified to handle the situation. If I can’t get more money “just because I want it” then they don’t get to have a company “just because they want it and at the expense of all the people doing the real work”.

Seriously, the very concept of minimum wage is tied to the fact that we do know what a minimum amount to live a dignified life costs. And, just in case, if you plan on saying “but minimum wage wasn’t meant to-“ it was, and it was extremely clear that it was.

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2 points

That’s the point, the myth is always about “unskilled labour” and that’s specifically what pro-capitalist people believe - that low skill is the same as unskilled and low wages workers are “unskilled” and that’s why they deserve to stay where they are because they are brainless. And I am obviously above that, so you better not raise the lowest wages to the same as my level, it would be an insult to my skills that I totally have and they don’t. That is specifically the message and the brainwashing.

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1 point

It’s supply and demand. If there are only a few of a thing, we pay more for it, if there are a lot of a thing then we (mostly) buy what is cheapest. This is the labor equivalent. There are people who will go out of their way to not buy the cheapest thing if it comes from Walmart or Amazon or whatever. Living wages are basically this (instead of hiring undocumented workers for pennies on the dollar) and it is always a good idea.

Leaving aside the metaphor, you can raise the wages as high as you like, but someone has to be willing to pay for it. If you mandate that every cashier must make at least $40 per hour, those jobs will be automated out of existence. It is really better IMO to start with universal basic income and go from there. Them if you don’t have any particular marketable service you can provide, at least you still get to eat and have a place to live.

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21 points

There’s jobs you can fake after an hour of training and there’s jobs that need six years to not kill people.

Minimum wage is supposed to be enough for one income to comfortably raise a family.

But we have to have this conversation, from scratch, every fucking time someone reposts this image. I’m beginning to understand why Socrates hated writing. You can prove a book wrong, and the book’s still there, being wrong.

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9 points

I mean, how much you get paid is usually related to how hard you are to replace. If it takes 1 week, 3 months, 1 year training, or a PHD in biomolecular engineering with 2 years of training.

They should make different amounts of money. It’s an investment in people, and you have to pay them more to keep them.

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7 points

It’s just supply and demand. It doesn’t matter how long you have to be trained or how many PhDs you have. Like it takes years to become a decent 3D animator, but those guys get paid peanuts compared to many other jobs that require the same amount of training. Since there are thousands of desperate fresh grad animators looking for a job every year. For every job at Pixar there is a line waiting for someone to get fired.

Also why for example plumbers and electricians get paid really well nowadays sometimes more than people with advanced degrees. Since there is a shortage of plumbers and electricians.

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3 points

I have a PhD and this isn’t true unfortunately. Most of my friends with PhDs struggle to find work relevant to their field.

I’d also like to know how much time it takes to train a CEO who makes half a million dollars a year.

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16 points

Not sure farmers and bricklayers are considered unskilled…

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10 points
*

From a government perspective they are. If you ever try to immigrate to one of the “desired countries” you’ll quickly find out how worthless the average worker is in the eye of a pen pusher.

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10 points

In the US, bricklayers and masons are considered skilled construction jobs.

https://esub.com/blog/unskilled-semi-skilled-skilled-labor-defined/

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6 points

Try to immigrate to the US and see how true that is. I’m also in a profession sources like that state as being skilled work but come application time, I was deemed worthless due to my profession, despite there being an outcry for workers.

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1 point

Because countries don’t generally need average workers. What they most often lack is educated workers skilled in one thing or the other.

What do you expect?

“Hi! I’m merely average. Can I come in?”

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3 points

The answer to this point is in a comment further down. But the point you’re missing is how often professions are downplayed as unskilled. Someone messes up in my field and someone dies, but that’s considered unskilled despite it being a profession where there’s constantly an outcry for more workers.

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7 points

Very certainly farm-hands and manual laborers are.

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8 points

I’ll give you farm-hands, and there are plenty of manual labor jobs that fall under the unskilled category, but bricklayers certainly are not among them. Simply a poor example in that specific case. The rest of the graphic is fine.

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1 point

A lot of farmhands operate million dollar combines and tractors pulling additional millions in implements. If a heavy duty equipment operator is “skilled” then you might have to rethink that one.

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1 point

not sure if you’re trying to argue with me or speaking rhetorically

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4 points

Did you know that aircraft mechanics were considered unskilled labor until the job was “reclassified” during the Cold War due to the demand for laborers?

From a cultural sense, both farmers and bricklayers are absolutely considered unskilled by the general public. The average person makes no difference between the generic construction labor usually done by illegal immigrants (in the US) and a bricklayer.

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2 points

In college I finally understood the quadratic equation. We had to use it to calculate the optimal amount of fertilizer to spread per acre.

The masonry field is skilled in design, engineering, etc. Bricklayers, not so much.

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