Hi,
jlai.lu is the french instance of Lemmy, some user posted this thread 16 days ago : https://jlai.lu/post/11504685, and a flamewar ensued between hexbear and the french, e.g. between happybadger and their administrator here.
Since they didn’t really have any reason to defederate initially, they’re now adamant that they should defederate only because of this discussion, since it proved that every Hexbear&Lemmygrad user is agressive(, as if jlai.lu users weren’t agressive in this discussion as well).
I still find hard to believe that they could defederate on such weak basis, and it does feel like a convenient excuse, but that’s what they’re saying, ask them for confirmation if you don’t believe it either.
They also used a list of post found on /c/MeanwhileOnGrad@sh.itjust.works as if it was representative, but it hardly counts as an argument, what a stupid situation…
They’ve now pinned this post for 12 days, and the defederation with both Hexbear and Lemmygrad seems unavoidable.
I’ve known this for more than a week but didn’t care that much, yet when talking with them, and especially @Camus here, they/he said that they/he would like to talk to you. @Camus is very patient/nice, and you can look at his number of comments/posts to gauge his influence, probably their most active user(, kind of a french ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆).
Well, to be more precise, he informally asked for some excuses from Hexbear, but my post here didn’t reach them, perhaps because of “r*tard” in my username(, r*tardataire designate someone who’s late in french).
However, more than excuses in the name of others, you only have to show him that we’re not aggressive(, if you have some time, it won’t change much in the end), something very easy/natural to prove for >90% of Hexbear users(, and perhaps >70-80% of Lemmygrad 🙂, it does feel a bit more bitter/serious here, not a criticism).
They have some communities that aren’t that far apart from what could be found on Lemmygrad or Hexbear b.t.w., so it can’t really be said that they’d reject us solely based on terrorism apologia, supporting Stalin, etc.(, even if their “leftist” admin is against socialist countries because our capitalists said that they’re authoritarian).
Staying federated with a french instance would be useless for 99% of Hexbear and Lemmygrad, so if you intervene it’d mostly be on the behalf of current/future french users(, it can be nice sometimes to speak your native language without using an alt account), and perhaps also for Lemmygrad and Hexbear’s reputation on jlai.lu.
If you’re french, and/or simply nice, and want a chat with them, feel free to do so directly under the post or with @Camus.
(Kinda worth mentionning in passing that, currently, their top two posts of all time sorted by the most comments are the ones cited above about this defederation)
Also, keep in mind that this defederation is unavoidable though, if it doesn’t happen now it’ll be next year or the year after. As you know, reddit banned ChapoTrapHouse, GenZedong, etc., and we were quickly banned from lemmy.world and others, so we’ll one day be banned from other “centrist” instances such as the french one. Just like we’d also be banned/censored by our governement if our numbers grow enough to disturb/‘be a threat’.
Furthermore, Hexbear took action, and decided to defederate first without even trying to discuss more calmly. So don’t waste too much of your time either(, but please don’t go there unless you intent to speak calmly).
Thanks for reading :) !
Since OP pinged me, and is also banned since for this attempt at brigading/shit stirring and overall bad faith posting, I’ll do a quick recap of what actually happened.
Some jlai.lu guy got manhandled somewhere on the lemmyverse by a hexbear user and opened a thread on the Meta community of jlai.lu, used to discuss the instance functioning.
Pretty much told him to fuck off, that’s internet for you, I don’t intend to defederate.
Some hexbear and grad user then, for some reason, ended up in this thread behaving like monkeys shitting in their hands and throwing it on people.
Most of jlai.lu users then, when confronted to these people, wanted nothing to do with them and wanted us to defederate.
Since it was not one guy anymore and me having something else to do in my weekend to handle children on the internet, opened a vote to see if it was a general request or just a few people wanting to defederate.
The vote is still on-going, and hexbear defederated us because I guess they didn’t like people challenging their bullshit and hurting their circlejerk.
The list of things listed in the thread is the list of reasons I was given as a reason to de-federate. I didn’t check because I simply don’t care since I’m against the defederation in the first place. I gave my standing in the different threads and in separate comments, as long as what I think of tankies and overall defederation.
I, as a long time internet user, even participated in the flame war because I think this is funny, but actually replied to people actually wanting to discuss.
I’m still not for defederation because I think this is a nothingburger that ended up a subject entirely because of your (grad and bear) own making, but since there is no positive or interesting participation between our instances mostly due to the language barrier, I won’t veto a defederation if the overall community don’t want to bother with your toxic members.
First, I am going to say I do agree with you hexbear is super fast to their own detrement with defederating, this seems to come from there olden days isolation and fear of anything changing there culture, I am not sure if it is about challenging their views or not, however I will agree they weild bans and defederations incredibly fast.
Second everything I got was through re-reading the thread both with my attrocious french skills, so I gave up and ran it through google translate. and I would agree that what happened was a nothing burger, it seemed like mostly an argument where one person was upset being called a Nazi Sympithiser and the other was upset that their claim was being miss represented, with lots of claims of brigading that from what I can tell was not likely what was happening. I am not a lemmy expert but I do know that it is possible to find organicly posts on other instances, and it turned into a total mess.
I would like to challange that this is entirely because of the grad and hex for 2 reasons, First i do not remember very many lemmygrad users, and second this was bringing up not just the personal grudge match of the idividuals, but calling for a defederation and pulling something from a year back, we also have people calling for a change in platform because the devs of lemmy have Castro profile pictures. This is not to say users from here and hex have no blame, as that would be rediculous, there was no attempt to prevent the tempreture of the discussion to rapidly rise.
Third I do take issue with the final labeling intentional or incidental that all of the members here are toxic, There are users from other instances that will start a fight merely because you use the grad or are a .ml user, so both in the userbase here being toxic, and on the range of toxicity I do not think as a whole we rank super highly
lastly, still not sure why this post was needed
pulling something from a year back,
I’m pretty sure that it was just for context if you’re referring to the previous post about defederating.
we also have people calling for a change in platform because the devs of lemmy have Castro profile pictures.
To which you don’t even see me entertaining the argument.
I also call for a change in platform, but it’s because they are shit devs and project managers, releasing broken updates after broken updates, ignoring security issues and overall not being good devs.
I don’t care about who makes an open-source product, but that’s another subject.
there was no attempt to prevent the tempreture of the discussion to rapidly rise.
I mean they came over already hot, I’m always up for shitposting but seems I’m in the minority.
Third I do take issue with the final labeling intentional or incidental that all of the members here are toxic
Tbh you were just put in the toxic tankies bin with hexbears because you are the only other instance users that came up directly flinging shit in the initial thread, your initial reputation and I cbb.
I’m not sure why some on jlailu were so insistent on singling out both lemmygrad and hexbear because I did a ctrl+f on that first defed thread and only found two comments from lemmygrad users. Unless there were other threads I missed this was about the extent of “our” participation.
From my exprence we seem to be the larger over all target, and long term, hexbear seems to be more out there and easier to point at for “bad behavior” so we get lumped in together every time. You will never see someone just complain about hexbear, they will always lump us in with it.
Some hexbear and grad user then, for some reason, ended up in this thread behaving like monkeys shitting in their hands and throwing it on people.
You said the people here and on Hexbear deserve to be thrown down a well, and you have the nerve to come here and whine about civility?
As I said on hexbear, I thought that an obvious reference to the Chinese tale of the frog in the well, in this context, would be funny, but I guess there was some over-expectation of the level of literacy of the average reader.
Even then, taken literally, this post was made well after the thread where you people were asking for terrorist attacks in France and overall genocide of French people, so I once again would like to point out the double standard.
Also, there is a difference between whining and explaining, but whatever you want to make yourself the victim, bébou.
“I’m just joking about murdering you bro, come on, it’s your fault you’re too ignorant to get it” – this sort of shit is why I told you to fuck off. You are just trolling and getting the appropriate response: disrespect.
this post was made well after the thread where you people were asking for terrorist attacks in France
You don’t get to whine about this when you do the same exact thing. You can either be honest, acknowledge that people get heated on the internet sometimes, and acknowledge that you do that too, or you can keep up the insults and pretend like there isn’t shit all over your hands as well.
You can hide behind Shrek references to make your threats if you want, they are still threats.
Everyone thinks what you said was gross, and your response to that is a classist “they think I’m gross because everyone else is so less educated than me”. That’s not it bro, it doesn’t matter, that’s not what the problem is, you can rob a bank and tell the police “but it was just a reference to Casa de Papel man, don’t you get it?” it won’t change anything about what will happen to you. This is literally you right now.
You need to log off and try to do some self-criticism. And if you find yourself in leftist spaces again in the future, know that you won’t get any sympathy with classist remarks in those places.
I thought that you wanted to defederate because you didn’t like tankies, but even the german instance has defederated, and many more, the french one kinda seems unavoidable as well
Thank you very much for the effort of posting here, you’re behaving in a more adult manner than some people (t)here, and even it’ll probably not lead to much, i sincerely appreciate the effort/sincerity
(bye :))
I don’t like tankies, I even hate them and all they represent historically.
But as I said openly in the initial thread, this is not enough of a reason to defederate.
Il y a quand même un comble quand on vient défédérer une instance “autoritaire” et se dire non-autoritaire. C’est pas autoritaire de forcer la déféd ? Ce n’est pas intolérant d’empêcher les gens de parler entre eux ?
Comme quoi le gauchisme transcende les pays et les moeurs pour s’installer dans toutes les voies, le chien galeux qui marche aux côtés de Lénine à ses dépends, comme dans le poème.
Je tiens quand même à rappeler que la politique de sinicisation au Xinjiang est reconnue par le gouvernement Chinois, que ce soit culturellement ou via l’import de colons Hans.
Ah bon depuis quand ?
Pendant ce temps nous on continue de fédérer avec toutes les “vraies” instances lemmy, c’est elles qui défédèrent.
Il y a quand même un comble quand on vient défédérer une instance “autoritaire” et se dire non-autoritaire. C’est pas autoritaire de forcer la déféd ? Ce n’est pas intolérant d’empêcher les gens de parler entre eux ?
Fun fact, c’est hexbear qui défédère, pendant que nous on a juste une consultation pour le moment, hein. Consultation qui implique les membres de l’instance, donc par définition c’est pas autoritaire non plus.
Fais un minimum d’effort d’honnêteté intellectuelle stp.
Comme quoi le gauchisme transcende les pays et les moeurs pour s’installer dans toutes les voies, le chien galeux qui marche aux côtés de Lénine à ses dépends, comme dans le poème.
sa fé réfléchir
Ah bon depuis quand ?
Jsp, je vais pas faire un cours d’histoire mais si on cible que la Chine contemporaine, je dirais depuis Ma Fuxiang, mais ça s’inscrit dans la politique impériale de la dynastie Qing, où l’envoi de colons Han dans des territoires d’importance stratégique était la norme.
Politique toujours en cours dans plus ou moins tous les territoires chinois, notamment au Xinjiang et depuis un peu plus récemment, Hong-Kong. Pour Xinjiang t’as eu plusieurs versions de réglementations locales dans les années 80 et 90, et la dernière mouture, centrale, elle, est connue chez nous comme la “Stike Hard Against Violent Terrorism” de 2014, qui continue la même chose en un peu plus rapide, mais a “juste” ajouté les fameux camps.
C’est tellement vieux et assumé que google sinisation ou sinicization te donnera plus ou moins toutes les pistes pour te renseigner si t’en as vraiment quelque chose à faire. C’est une conséquence direct du fonctionnement clanique et dynastique de la Chine impériale depuis des millénaires.
Pendant ce temps nous on continue de fédérer avec toutes les “vraies” instances lemmy, c’est elles qui défédèrent.
Je comprend pas, personne veut parler avec moi alors que moi j’ai pas de problème pour parler avec eux. Ça doit être le monde entier le problème.
Bah fallait pas poser de questions alors frérot si tu voulais pas de réponse.
J’sais bien que tu t’en bas les couilles en vrai et que ton gauchisme est performatif mais que t’es grosso modo un mec un contrarien edgy qui est né trop tard pour être un nazi sur 4chan.
Fun fact, c’est hexbear qui défédère … Fais un minimum d’effort d’honnêteté intellectuelle
Hexbear still federates with you as everyone can see at https://hexbear.net/instances, and you still federate with Hexbear as everyone can see at https://jlai.lu/instances. We’d appreciate it if you represent the facts accurately before accusing us of intellectual dishonesty. (As an aside, if I have somehow erred in checking this, please feel free to correct me.)
Je comprend pas, personne veut parler avec moi alors que moi j’ai pas de problème pour parler avec eux. Ça doit être le monde entier le problème.
Did we ever say it’s the whole world? There are still mainstream instances that continue to federate with us.
If some of the instances believe that our explicit Marxist viewpoint is too extreme for them (and this has not come without dissent from their userbase, such as with lemmy.world defederation), then it actually is their problem.
Hexbear still federates with you as everyone can see at https://hexbear.net/instances, and you still federate with Hexbear as everyone can see at https://jlai.lu/instances.
Hexbear did defederate by removing us from the allowed instances, which break federation of at least the comments.
You can see the difference in content from https://jlai.lu/post/12056905?scrollToComments=true and https://hexbear.net/post/3822135
No jlai.lu user can comment on hexbear since they soft defederated and I guess the opposite is true.
We’d appreciate it if you represent the facts accurately before accusing us of intellectual dishonesty.
I mean, see what I’m talking about when I’m speaking about projection?
If some of the instances believe that our explicit Marxist viewpoint is too extreme for them
Please stop using this word when not an ounce of materialist analysis is present in your political reflection.
Well I would prefer if they did not defederate with us but if they are taking tips from a full-time anti-tankie from one of the more racist instances on Lemmy at large I don’t know what one could say to sway them. Look at their list of posts. This post is linked as “Tankies celebrate r*pe”. The mass r*pe story published by NYT was constructed entirely from second and third hand unverified accounts. Regardless of this no one in the screenshot is celebrating r*pe. Stuff like this should not be credible evidence for an anti-zionist and anyone who suggests this nonsense as grounds for defederation should not be taken seriously.
Yea(, my “debunk” was « No comment does that, and I could show you more than one piece of evidence proving that we were at least partially lied to about this(, do you remember that testimony about them tossing around a severed breast in the air like a football ? Or the period when the accusation was made, even though it’s confirmed they only stayed for about ~4 minutes ? And all the other numerous lies about this attack, like the infamous mention of babies in the oven) »), but nobody interacted with my debunks of this list, including their admin 🤷, who preferred to answer me on other grounds, so i don’t think that it matters that much to them(, even if it’s still a (pseudo-)“argument” on their part).
I don’t know what one could say to sway them.
Only waste your time there if you don’t have more important things to do, i don’t think it’d change anything about their defederation in the long term, and don’t really know what you could say, perhaps “hi, i’m an admin of Lemmygrad, do you want to discuss ?”, but i don’t see what would be the point, you can hardly convince them that we’re not agressive and shouldn’t be defederated on this basis.
It’s stupid anyway, still worth to make a post, but stupid.
as if jlai.lu users weren’t agressive in this discussion as well
I just posted a story on a lefty imageboard about some guy swiping my friend on the sidewalk and when my very weakly tapped him back in the face he made a scene like he was assaulted. Liberals are dangerous hyper-individualistic villains. I actually consider them a direct enemy of today’s left, and not some neutral third party. These french users sound the same.
Agreed, liberals always are a direct enemy of the left- and not merely a “lesser evil” to fascists, but equal and with no meaningful difference from fascists (which just happen to be their mask-off honest selves).
Many people here (if not most) used to be liberals. I’m not aware of anyone here who started off as a fascist and eventually became a socialist.
Libs can also occasionally be browbeaten into passing some decent laws. They sometimes try to strike a balance between the working class and capitalists (e.g., the minimum wage and other labor protections), and they sometimes oppose various forms of bigotry. There is no strain of fascism that doesn’t place bigotry front and center, and any concessions to workers are explicitly for white workers only, and come at the price of destroying even white labor’s organized power to demand more.
I actually consider them a direct enemy of today’s left
Yeah, they’re not really hiding it anyway. What’s even weirder is that it doesn’t stop at pro-capitalist liberals attacking anti-capitalist socialists(, instead of living together, as if ideologies had to fight until only one remains), but that even so-called socialists attack other socialists(, based on lies about freedom or w/e).
Oh well, don’t see what i could do…
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