As a queer person, extending the acronym past what is necessary feels like pandering in the best light, and purposely trying to bait ridicule in the worst. The whole point of LGBT was to include anyone on the spectrum that was gay or trans, and the Q was supposed to include anyone who considers themselves queer, even if they don’t meed those parameters. I can understand wanting to include I because intersex people are often left out of the conversation, and I even understand A because there is a lot of debate even within the LGBTQ community itself as to whether asexuals are considered queer or not. But when you start incorporating numbers, symbols, or extending past 5 letters within the acronym, you are defeating the purpose of having an acronym, creating confusion, baiting ridicule, and even making people not explicitly represented in the acronym feel excluded.
And there is already a single, all encompassing, inclusive, one syllable word that describes the community and all who occupy it: “Queer.” It’s easier to say, remember, and hell, even type if you are typing LGBTQ past 5 letters. But because of it being appropriated and used as a slur, there are many even within the community who are even afraid to utter it, let alone identify with it. Which is a god damned shame there is nothing inherently wrong the word, cause even in its original meaning, it meant someone who was outside the norm or otherworldly, and in literature has been used to describe characters like Gandalf, and characters in Shakespeare.
It describes me without having to explain or justify how or why. It describes how I feel as a person, how others see me, how I interact and relate to others. Its an adjective that can be verbed and adverbed. It’s sharp and provocative, yet also warm and natural, like a forest green. People who have adopted and embraced the word for themselves feel the love within the word, and can extend it to others. And even for those outside the community, those who are brave enough to use it when talking in our defense come off as more decisive and confrontational, than the person who thinks adding another letter or number to the acronym will make them seem more legitimate.
It’s time we stop fearing our word. It’s time we recognize the difference between queer as an insult, and queer as a description of who we are, and we need to extend that to people who are willing to talk about us and our struggles or come to our defense. The word is only as evil as we are willing to reject it, and I will be dead in the ground before I let our word be the domain of queerphobes and bigots.
edit: It’s late and I’m going to bed. Apparently some people think I’m a self hating queer for thinking the acronym should be dropped for an all inclusive term, and so be it. It’s late and I want to get some sleep. And a lot of the people making this argument I know haven’t read past the first paragraph, much less to here. Anything clarification they could want can be found here and in my other posts here. Otherwise, if they are not going to put in the effort to read, I’m not going to put in the effort to respond.
edit 2: I wanted to make a separate inclusion because I have had a chance to sleep and cool off, and I wanted to address some of the more combative posts in my replies: I get it. We as a community suffer attacks constantly, even from within the community, so I understand why so many here are on guard and skeptical of my intentions. And I’ll admit, my post probably could be better written. I’m not exactly the best at articulating my thoughts. But the point of my post is not to exclude anyone from the community, but rather embrace a word that includes everyone. I would like to hear counterpoints to my argument, because maybe what I need is a different perspective on the issue. I would love to hear from people who prefer the acronym, and why they feel it maybe more inclusive. I am a flawed human being with many faults. I grew up in a conservative background, and my life up to this point has been trying to unlearn a lot of that. But I did not write this with the intention of excluding or singling out anyone. Forgive me I have done so.
Indeed… all extending the acronym does is give the Far Right ammo for their unfunny “Alphabet Cult” jokes
At some point ya just gotta say “Look if you’re not straight and not cis or just think that may be the case. You’re in the club”
Extending the acronym to cover everyone is becoming ridiculous. I think we just need a word that covers all the bases rather than trying to shoe horn one more letter/number/symbol/wingding that’s already becoming difficult to keep track of. It doesn’t bring attention to any one group, nor does it help individual groups as a whole when you’re summed up into a letter.
There’s something in the back of my head telling me it’s not an acronym, is it?
If it was it’d be pronounced ligbitikwitwo
I mean, I don’t identify as queer and plenty of my friends don’t. One of my exes did and great for him but this just seems like the wrong argument. There likely just needs to be a technical, non-inflammatory term.
I’m glad you like it though.
The most all-encompassing term I’ve seen is sexual minority. Basically non-cis or non-straight
There’s some argument over adopting the term GSM (Gender and Sexual Minorities) as an inoffensive general term.
Can we apply this logic to the flag as well? I thought the rainbow of the pride flag was meant to represent diversity and cover all orientations…like how a rainbow spectrum of light literally covers all colours. Now specific groups are being added and people are finding ways to add another line to represent something. The flag is a mess.
I tend to think of the Progress flag as a product of the times, not as a replacement for the rainbow Pride flag. We added these additional signifiers specifically because those groups were under-represented or under particular attack, not because they aren’t included in the Pride rainbow.
My biggest qualm is a qualm I have with any acronym/abbreviation. If you’re going to introduce a letter that is unknown to many, then define your term. Otherwise, I’m going to assume it’s a typo, or I going to not recognize it.
All acronyms and abbreviations, or at least those that aren’t commonplace, should be defined somewhere adjacent to their use, or else you are excluding people.
Speech/text is only useful if you’re using it in a way that appropriately conveys a message to it’s intended audience.
I’ve come to realize that whatever it is that causes people to have alternative sexual preferences, I’ve got a little bit of it. However, I’m heterosexual, so I don’t really identify with the community. I could accept the queer label, though.
Right there with you. World has always shat on dudes that don’t fit the traditional “masculine” role.
I had a teacher in highschool (04-08) whose name was B Gay. In his lifetime Gay want from “happy” to a slur. Machine shop was the best because of him too
Two spirit is a native cultural thing and I think acknowledging it is a good idea. It used to just be LGBT, why should we stop expanding inclusion the moment you find a word you’re personally comfortable with?
LGBTQIAPDSMFC2… at some point you’ve got to consider the cut off otherwise you might as well write out the whole alphabet.
Queer is good to me as there’s a difference between “Ben is queer” and “Ben is a queer”
I liked the MOGAI acronym since by nature it includes all of them but Queer also works as well.
I mean going on your second point, I think it demonstrates the difference between a slur and a descriptor is how it’s used as a word.
Like transgender is neutral term but we see it becoming a scare word by fascists recently by changing how its used in speech. Like “transgendered”, “transgenderism” or “transing” (as a note, it’s kinda scary how the first two no longer set off window’s spellcheck). Basically turning trans as a state of being adjective into a verb makes it seem like an act you can do to someone or have happen to you.
Better question: What makes you think they are not included in LGBT or Queer? Also, I know the inclusion of two spirits within the LGBT acronym is contentious with many native Americans as well. It’s why the pride flag with the native American feathers is frowned upon at many queer events.
If everyone is included in queer why be anything other than the Q community? What elevates some queerness to a place where it deserves recognition on its own and why is some queerness relegated to a bucket labelled “Miscellaneous”?
How to defeat a slur, take it as your own. It’s simply as easy as that.
Growing up I was fat as fuck, people made fun of me all the time. One day I decided it was enough, I started making fun of myself for being fat, suddenly everyone left me alone because it no longer got the response they were trying to get.
Ignoring / getting angry is what they want, turn around and happily scream yeah I’m queer, ya looking for a good time? (For example) ya know what’s gonna happen? Their gonna start stammering and come up with another way to bother you, and when you don’t give in and don’t show a reaction they will end up storming away angrily. Then you have something to laugh at for the rest of the day.
What the fuck do you think pride parades are for?
My grandfather got caught downtown Toronto in one and spent 2 hours throwing slurs. Ya think a single person in that parade cared?
This is the same type of self hating bigotry that made the Bisexuals unwelcome at pride and transgender people shit on for 30 years.
Fuck you and anyone who thinks like you.
For advocating for an all inclusive term rather than an acronym that can be chopped to exclude people?
Yeah fuck me I guess.
Well you’re doing it by trying to exclude the parts you don’t agree with…
There was a petition to offer refugee status to LGBT Americans put before the House of Commons recently, I just got an email update about it because I signed it, and apparently they accept some refugees on this basis, but it doesn’t look like many. I say open the borders and bring me your gays, America. We’ll be nicer to them than you are.
My fiance and I have been looking into moving to Canada. He’s a librarian in a small town and things are not looking so great.
It’s really expensive unfortunately, but it’s a hell of a lot safer by and large.
Be careful with offers like that. There are several million more Americans looking to flee than you can house.
I wish I was joking
I was born to go dance and cycle all over montreal. Im in a northern state, rural, fuck all going on here.
LGBTQ2 - the long-awaited sequel.
The “2” is for two-spirited which is a traditional Native American concept and that is neat.
What’s wild about “two-spirit” is that it’s not a really definite concept (that is, it is a neologism from 1990 that does not have a universal understanding among tribal traditions) but what it does accomplish is replacing the perjorative European anthropological term
slur
berdache, from Arabic burdaj “slave” meaning basically a young male submissive gay partner
TIL that term is considered a slur. I remember learning about them in anthropology class ~15 years ago and that was the term used.
So is the respectful terminology today to use whichever modern LGBTQ label is accurate, or should I use two-spirit in historical context?
Why the 2?
LGBTQ 2 has better graphics, split-screen multiplayer, a customizable interface, and hot-swappable controls. It also supports macros.
But now you have to pay for DLC maps.
It stands for “two spirit,” which is an Indigenous term for a gender identity similar to being transgender. Canada has been making a more concerted effort to acknowledge and respect Indigenous views and traditions, so it’s added to the LGBT+ acronym in Canada
I have no idea what any of this means lol. How’s it different from the T? If they “added” it on, then where did the + go? I’m old and confused and people are just people regardless so I have no idea what is the correct term for anyone anymore, y’all are just humans to me.
There are a lot of differing opinions on what should be used, LGBT, LGBTQ, LGBTQ+, LGBTQIA, etc, etc. I appreciate what inclusive acronyms try to do, but it does get very burdensome for non-queer people. I typically just use “queer”, personally, though you obviously have to be a little careful with that one depending on context and perhaps it isn’t always entirely encompassing. E.g. are intersex people “queer”? They just have abnormal sex chromosomes.
-A queer
Trans generally means a man born in a woman’s body or a woman born in a man’s body. People who are trans prefer to be treated as the gender they are inside, whether or not they appear to be that gender externally, just like traditional men would take offense to being referred to as she or her. It’s fine to see people as just people but you should acknowledge that you wouldn’t want to be referred to as the wrong gender and neither do trans people.
Two-spirit appears to be more of an umbrella term for native American third genders, with no single general meaning. The third gender part appears to be important, meaning they are neither male nor female on the inside, regardless of what gender they may appear to be. Take this with a grain of salt since this is the first time I’ve heard the term and just looked it up. There appears to be some contention around the meaning, so I’m probably wrong.
I’m not sure of why anything but Q is involved, doesn’t Queer basically cover everything that isn’t Hetero? Also I thought people were against labels, but maybe I was wrong since everyone seems to want a label now.
Why are you talking at all, if you don’t know the answer to the question?
