I have zero desire to own an Internet-connected car wherein I can’t “own” it without abiding by the rules set forth by the auto manufacturer. BMW recently killed their subscription seat heaters but who knows what Egon Smells is cooking up at Tesla.
In my defense, my 13 year old car died earlier this year and I needed a new car fast. I was completely unaware these systems had gotten as bad as they have until after I bought it.
I figured we’re not going to have much choice in the future. We’ll be driving cars under End User License Agreements that already send tons and tons of data about us back to the manufacturers.
As much as I love technology, I hate the way it is being used. Car companies don’t make enough money selling cars so they need to collect and sell driver data? It’s dystopian.
In US, maybe. But in EU things are already regulated enough that this can be avoided to a degree. It’s not there yet, but EC doesn’t like shit like this. We already have GDPR and forced separate warranties for hardware and software, ensuring you can fuck around with the latter without voiding warranty on the former. But at some point I fully expect some manufacturer to give you a kill switch from GSM modem and call it a feature, then everyone else will follow.
Don’t you love it when it makes you read a disclaimer and click “accept” literally every time you get into the car if you want to use your infotainment center? Who’s the asshole who came up with that brilliant idea? Whoever he is, fuck him!
I suspect that’s a hedge against getting sued for one reason or another. The disclaimer always seems to be designed to absolve the manufacturer if you, e.g., follow the GPS until you drive into a lake.
But! The one on my boss’ Tacoma he just bought dismisses itself after the vehicle has been in motion about 5 seconds, though. I think that rather defeats the purpose. (What it dismisses to in this case is a nag screen begging you to subscribe to the navigation “service,” which he has not done. That sort of thing really makes me want to see about where to buy a cruise missile.)
My Subaru and every other car I’ve been in the disclaimer goes away if you don’t click it. I have clicked accept in two years.
There are electric cars built by corporate oligarchs that are not Nazis. More disconcerting you missed that memo.
Unfortunately, in the US at least, there’s very little choice. If we’re only counting new electric cars(not SUVs) in the low end, there’s basically only Tesla, Chevrolet, Nissan, and Hyundai. Some of the least reliable manufacturers with frequent recalls. And Tesla 3 has the most range and tech out of those for a similar price.
When you get to the $50k+ range, then you have a lot more options with all the high end luxury brands like Audi, BMW, Mercedes, etc., offering EVs.
Egon Smells
I dislike the guy as much as everyone else but i really wish this stupidist name bullshit would die.
Shit like that annoys me as much as “tRump”.
I despise him, hope to never see him near DC again, and will be happy to see him found guilty. But when you say things like that it just makes you look stupid.
“tRump” is just lazy.
who knows what Egon Smells is cooking up
Subscription for brakes is on the table
I once had a car salesman try to talk me out of ABS because the one on the lot didn’t have it. He literally told me “ABS? You only need that in an emergency!”
I replied with “I only need headlights at night and seatbelts in an accident but I want those, too.”
I can totally see them charging extra monthly charges or even a charge every time you activate the ABS.
I have a Tesla. It’s great. I’ve received dozens of new features OTA. There are no subscriptions (except a very reasonable $10 for additional cellular connectivity, that I do not pay for). It’s the best car I’ve ever owned.
Also Fuck Elon 👍
I own a Tesla, I can’t imagine buying any other make now. The full experience is incredible. Every time I hear what’s going on with the new cars, especially EV, my answer to all the issues is always the same: get a Tesla instead.
Also: Musk is a shitshow on legs
I can’t imagine it’s a Tesla or it wouldn’t say anything about keeping the engine running.
Either way, fuck all this bullshit. Every day I grow less and less likely to part with my old beast BUT the near doubled and still rising price of fuel will probably force my hand eventually.
I just went on a touring holiday and fuel was easily the largest component of my budget.
Come to Norway, and you’ll see that overy other car is a Tesla. It’s like a status symbol.
It being a status symbol becomes kind of irelevant if every other person has it
Unfortunately most modern cars are built this way.
After extensive 6-months search of new car, I concluded that you have to compromise.
I went with Nissan pathfinder and the software isn’t mature yet. Engine runs rough with misfires when idle. The car assembled with misaligned parts.
Nissan knows and wouldn’t fix the issue.
While I like driving. I hate all the shit modern car manufacturers put in modern cars. Sure they’re more efficient on fuel than older ones. But we should be able to have that without needing the car to be tracked and data collected, we have in the past.
I feel like all these driver aids are also making people worse at driving. They need to do less, so they pay attention less.
On top of that, can we ban touchscreens in cars? Physical buttons give physical feed back, you can feel for the button you want and press it without taking your eyes off the road. A touchscreen gives you none of that, and means you have to look away. It’s somewhat mitigated when they put buttons on the steering wheel, but not all buttons can fit in that spot.
Sure some cars have google assistant, Siri or Alexa. But I actually get so frustrated when trying to tell my phone to navigate somewhere or just simply change the song. And that’s just the phone! The amount of times I have to pull over because it glitches out, or just fails to interpret some or all of what I’ve just said (sure it’s better than voice assistants used to be, but it still breaks regularly) is still too high. The amount of times I regularly tell it to do something, only to find it was still processing the activation voice command, and therefore was initialising the VA screen, and not listening to a word I said after the initial activation is infuriating.
I love technology, but the technology has no place in cars if it detracts or distracts from the act and safety of actually driving the car.
/Rant.
On top of that, can we ban touchscreens in cars? Physical buttons give physical feed back, you can feel for the button you want and press it without taking your eyes off the road. A touchscreen gives you none of that, and means you have to look away. It’s somewhat mitigated when they put buttons on the steering wheel, but not all buttons can fit in that spot.
That’s, a damn good point.
Android Auto has a good interface for integrating its functions into a car touchscreen, but it’s not controlling anything “important”.
I agree that all the traditional car controls should be actual knobs and buttons. I rented a car once and they gave me a Tesla, and I couldn’t stand how all the controls were behind its touchscreen. I never felt the need to buy a Tesla, but that one experience turned me off from them entirely.
A touchscreen gives you none of that, and means you have to look away
That’s the reason why I don’t like listening to music on smart phones. Want to skip a track? Fish the phone out of your pocket, turn the screen back on, find the skip button, tap it, wait a second until the garbage app acknowledges that you’ve pressed it, turn off screen, put it back.
While on my 2000’s phone it’s just pressing one of the physical buttons.
Want to skip a track? Fish the phone out of your pocket, turn the screen back on, find the skip button, tap it, wait a second until the garbage app acknowledges that you’ve pressed it, turn off screen, put it back.
I had a HTC Touch Pro smartphone 15 years ago, and it had an optional headphone cable with buttons on it. You could use the buttons for pause/play, next track, and previous track, without having to get the phone out of your pocket.
I never really saw something like that again for wired headphones. I did sometimes see headphones with buttons on the headphones themselves, but often they just have play/pause.
Bruh, get a 2019+ Miata MX5. It solves 95% of what you are complaining about and it’s fun to drive.
I know what you’re saying. My '23 Audi a3 has all the things you would want to buttons instead of touch screen only.
I have huge gripes with bad infotainment systems, only reason I bought this new car was because I have no issues with it. I’m coming from old American cars. All the benefits of physical buttons with tactile feedback while being way more fun to drive.
I agree. Let’s cut the middle man and force 100% automated driving. People can fuck in the back then with less likely to die than with humans with stupid cars without assistance driver aids. Driving is extremely dangerous and honestly I trust ai over other people (in USA).
Nah, I don’t know if AI will ever be 100% perfect, and I don’t want to trust it fully. Ai is human built, and it’s my personal belief that humans aren’t perfect, so AI will therefore never be perfect.
Also, you will always want a qualified driver to be able to take over should some part of the car sensor systems fail.
Sensors, unlike humans have a tendency to fail quickly, sometimes instantly, and even AI and autopilot can behave erratically if it gets bad or false inputs from bad sensors.
It’s like in a airliner, autopilot even though at this point is pretty much practically capable of flying a plane completely from takeoff to landing, there will always be at least pilots on duty in the cockpit in order to account for unforseen circumstances and failures, even if they never actually fly the plane normally.
AI doesn’t need to be perfect, it just needs to be better than your average human driver. Which, you know isn’t a very high bar…
Comparing to an airplane pilot isn’t the same, a pilot goes through years of training to be able to fly passengers (Well beyond a dinky Cessna or whatever anyways) and you need years of experience on top before you are even considered by the big airlines
A human driver can get a license in as little as a few days
Oh seems I wasn’t clear. Sentient AI should drive us. Give it 30 years and I bet it will be close to the outcome if not on the cusp.
Sometimes the updates aren’t even worth it.
Toyota said my prius needed an update so I installed the app for it. All the update did was remove fucking features that were usable in the car. Used to have the option to use Pandora from the console but it got removed randomly by an update.
Then they installed an Alexa search page that glitches my console if I every select it.
Basically I’m saying FUCK TOYOTA
My 2015 Subaru Impreza has a shitty entertainment system. At least it still connects via BT, but they removed the screen mirroring really early on and the app had ~1 star on Google Play for a long time (probably still does). Thankfully it’s not integrated with the features of the car in any meaningful way. I could swap it for any other head unit. No sure how that will work with modern cars where the AC, lane departure, and everything else goes to the stereo.
The real issue, as you point out, is there is nothing to force them to continue supporting it or maintain its features once us poor suckers have bought it.
If it’s anything like my MIL’s 17’ Forester, you flat can’t replace the headunit without disabling a lot of car features. I believe the land departure/EyeSight still works, though.
Thinking for a second it wasn’t a typo, a land departure feature would be excellent, either flying or amphibious mode.
Sounds like getting the 2016 model of Prius was a good call on my part. Of course, it was 2019 when I did it and that model wasn’t substantially different, but that sounds awful.
Yeah 2017 model here :/
Entune is the worst Toyota dashboard ever. It’ll randomly crash and reload the dashboard while driving sometimes. (once or twice every 3 months)
Granted not a software update but my dad’s Cadillac got recalled once and all they did was make the ceiling buttons harder to read that was the one time he ever obayed a recall
ceiling buttons harder to read
How?! And also, why?! I don’t get it. What was the point of doing this?
How they made the buttons so recessed that you need to move your head directly under them to see what button is what. Why it’s a Cadillac ATS this car is the physical incarnation of mildly infuriating and I have no idea why my dad loves it so much when both me and my mom find everything about that car mildly infuriating I guess they just found another way to make the car mildly infuriating
I really REALLY hope someone at some point starts a gasoline to electric car conversion company at some point.
I love my car because it has just the right amount of technology: Bluetooth connectivity for calls and music. That’s it. That’s all I need.
Yup. Unfortunately, since most people seem to prefer the dystopian futuretech, all auto manufacturers are going to employ it. Just like with cell phones. The last phone I know of with 16:9 aspect ratio and no blighted hole punch or notch was in 2018. There’s a market full of us luddites who prefer the old ways, but we’re invisible to manufacturers because it’s more profitable to make something that more people want to buy, and we’re forced to buy that garbage as well anyway.
Yeah, it goes further than just designing the hardware to only last a few years, all of these electronics ensure that the car is fucked as soon as the necessary online services go down. Meanwhile a well-maintained '93 Geo Metro, driven in the south where they don’t salt the roads every year, can last decades.
There are some positives and negatives to the desire for old form factors. Secondhand phones from 2018 cost much less than new ones but lack some of the new features like… I can’t think of any.
There was some discussion on a post about gas to electric cars https://lemmy.world/post/5901284
There are likely a lot of complexities here.
Battery tech will need to improve greatly and be minimalized. EV batteries are currently massive, heavy, and generally engineered as long, wide, flat modules to be installed beneath the floor so they keep the center of gravity low and the vehicle balanced. That’s not really possible in an ICE vehicle with all the frame molding around existing exhaust and drivetrain components, and you most likely can’t just have some sort of modular battery and motor unit that you just drop into the engine bay, as that would put a ton (literally) of additional weight on one end and mess with the balance.
The draintrain components may need to be replaced or the motor outputs modulated to prevent the torque from ripping it apart.
Power steering and brakes will need to converted to electric assist. AC and heat would need to converted to electric.
Older cars (early 00’s and older) with cable throttles will need to be retrofitted with drive-by-wire, or use some sort of adapter module that connects the cable and converts it to digital inputs. Same with brakes.
All of the electronics (lights, wipers, windows, locks, radio, etc.) will need to be rewired since there’s no longer an alternator.
Probably will need upgraded suspension and brakes to handle the extra weight.
There’s probably a lot more I’m not thinking about or not even aware of. Unfortunately, I don’t think it’s going to happen outside of rich enthusiast circles, which is terribly sad, because I completely agree with you. Basically everything made after around 2010 is total dogshit.
I dont know the details, but Ive heard of companies that do this, or kits that can be used for it, existing, though I can only imagine that changing a car that one’s business has not manufactured and was never designed for such a conversion must take a lot of manual work, which would be expensive before even considering things like the cost of batteries.
Power train conversion is reasonably simple. Just throw combustion engine and transmission box away, make brackets for electric motors and attach them directly to the wheels (with axles if necessary). Conversion of controls is (I assume) is also somewhat simple since existing brake system and power steering is quite straightforward to run with electric motors since you just need something which can run a belt drive and gas pedal is most likely already electric. For all the electronics you have plenty of space in where the engine used to be.
But. And there’s a pretty big but. Batteries are pretty big and pretty heavy. On any given combustion engine car there’s just no room for them (at least if you’re after a conversion with similar range/power than a readily built electric car). And even if you cut the floor panel off and modify it to accomodate battery pack (or whatever the route you choose might be) it’ll heavily affect weight distribution, frame stability and many other things, suspension included. Model S battery is apparently 540kg, so if you’ll do a conversion to your corolla you might save around 150kg of weight by removing old engine+transmission but you’d still have additional 300kg of mass to deal with.
For a van which is designed to haul heavy loads from the start it might be pretty simple to just raise floor of the cargo space a bit but for a common sedan that’s a whole another thing.
I looked into this for my car. The conversion has a 50 mile range, essentially replaces the engine with an electric motor, locks the car in 3rd gear, and replaces the fuel tank with batteries.
It cost about £3500, which was a bit much for me considering the car only cost £3k, and I could just sell my car to buy a 100mile+ leaf for the same outlay.
You can’t download a car, but you sure can brick it.
