oh, the irony
Mods are forced to work
You keep repeating that. Just how many times have you been banned on Reddit? I’m guessing a lot.
Why don’t they move here? They are being exploited there anyways
And give up their power as mods of a large subreddit and starting again from scratch? Most of them probably aren’t willing to do that.
I still think Reddit forcibly removing the head mod of r/Piracy is peak irony. They can’t not have people discussing copyright infringement, even through in years prior they were threatening to ban the community.
damn, the employees (probably directly from spez himself) are picking the “troll” route for reopening. r/piracy and r/antiwork? they aren’t even big ones like r/videos!
When Reddit said moderator tools were exempt from the API pricing, did they mention the tools would stay as is?
I’m assuming not since the mods are still protesting.
I’m out of the loop of the details regarding the impact on mod tools.
I’m a mod of /r/Disneyland, and we recreated our sub over here on Kbin ( @Disneyland, https://kbin.social/m/Disneyland).
The issue is that we had 500k subs on Reddit. That sounds like a lot, but in reality it equates to about a dozen posts a day, maybe less.
Over here on Kbin, we almost have 100 subs - and I’m really proud of that! - but 100 subs is basically nothing. A fraction of a percent of people are actually content contributors, and the whole community rests on them. Then combine that with the fact that we’re a niche subject (not some general thing like “video games”) and that impacts what can be contributed.
On top of that, the magazine is fairly empty. Not barren - we have a few posts - but it certainly looks and feels empty. And because it’s empty, nobody wants to post, which means it stays empty.
Compare that to Reddit, which has a very dedicated community for us. Not a massive community, but certainly a passionate one. We care about our community; we’ve stewarded it for years. All of us mods started out as members of that community (the subreddit founder is long gone), and we’re all unpaid volunteers that want to keep that community healthy.
Reddit threatened to take it from us and give it to another mod team for a related Disney subreddit that played along with the admins. The issue is that multiple Disney subreddits have, uh, issues with those mods (which has been the case for years to the point where explaining the history is part of onboarding for a lot of Disney mods).
So the issue was reframed - either we reopen our sub on our terms… or we stick to our guns, force Reddit to remove us, and get replaced by a different mod team. This other team is known to be harsh about banning users for any kind of dissent, they abuse their mod powers to spread anti-vax nonsense all over their “non-political” subreddit, they have multiple subreddit drama threads talking about their actions, they’ve been gunning for all of the Disney subs for years… and they’d immediately jump at the chance to reopen the subreddit we’ve worked hard on so they could run it their way.
When you look at it like that… there’s only one real choice. I hate Reddit, but our community doesn’t deserve that.
I realize saying “we choose to keep our powers for your own good” makes me sound like, oh, I dunno, “landed gentry”… but users don’t see that side of moderation or Reddit drama, and frankly they shouldn’t have to.
So we opened and are taking the abuse. Users are torn between “you caved, scabs” and “told you this was a useless gesture, how dare you take my sub away”. Neither one is great.
But there’s more to it than what appears on the surface, and frankly that’s true across a lot of subs.
I do not understand these posts at all.
It sounds like that you are just not interested in building a new community and rather go back to the ivory tower that is reddit.
If that is so just say it.
What are you gonna do when Reddit is gonna implement the next thing that would be unbeneficial to the community?
If you know that the possible new mods are asses, why not call reddits bluff?
Let them see what good moderation is about and what happens when you don’t care about the good moderators for years.
You are probably afraid that a new mod team would do just a good a job as you and you will be forgotten after a day. Then of course what would be all this for if change wouldn’t happen? Other questions you are asking yourself can entice; Is my moderation position really that hard to take over? Are the changes really affecting me?
You are probably afraid losing something that you put your own time and effort in and the idea that someone would ruin it or just take your place is a situation you are not ready for. I would understand all that but then why black out at all? Rigorous changes after 48 hours only happen in Disney movies, you should know that.
Sorry to say but most of the community does not give a damn about moderators and you know it. They care about the content that is provided to them that is what they are hooked on.
This only shows that Reddit has full control over you and your actions and they can do whatever they want to whomever they want because you will bulge the first second they threaten to take your moderations position away.
For the life of me I cannot understand why people would gladly be providing money in Reddits pockets, while the community and moderators don’t see a penny, don’t see any user improvements, get constantly lied to, while getting bend over on every turn.
I am gonna say this again; I thought moderators actually got paid by reddit. I was baffled when I heard a few days ago they weren’t. I thought and still think it would be absolutely ridiculous to invest your time and efforts for a profit making company for absolutely nothing in return.
In the meantime Steve huffman is spitting in your and the communities face every step of the way, not caring about you or the community at all.
I have a whole lot of respect to the people who gave up their mod positions just to make a stand for themselves.
I really don’t mind if subs stay open, if you like to moderate be my guest. If you don’t agree with the blackout, sure.
But the posturing about the greater good for the community, just don’t.
Do you have any plans to start redirecting users to your new spot, while keeping the subreddit open?
how dare you take my sub away". Neither one is great.
Neither is missing out on the the Ron DeSantis subtext that must be like spinach to Popeye at r/Disneyland.
Sounds to me that sometimes the community needs to actually see the consequences of mods leaving? Because a lot take the attitude of who needs mods just open it up.
And sticking to the status quo instead of breaking it takes away the chance of something even changing for the better even if the outcome could be worse.
Spez knew what an empty threat most of the mods were making.
It’s certainly a hard situation, but I don’t think going along with the malicious agenda of the administration for the good of the community is a strong position. At some point you have to be decisive and accept that there will be negative consequences. Critically, it is not your fault! Someone is saying if you don’t do bad thing A, I’ll do bad thing B. If they do B, that’s not on you.
Of course you have to find balance, choose your battles etc., and everybody should have their own take, but the stakes here just aren’t that high for most folks: it’s low grade bullying that you can walk away from, and, in the process, show others that they don’t need to stay there either. Some subscribers will stick with a crumbling Reddit community to the bitter end, but others will see it go sour and look around for where the good parts of the community went. If you shift your efforts to a new setting, then some of those users will follow the gradient up from toxic Reddit to wherever you setup shop. If you work to keep the Reddit community as comfortable as possible, then you are reducing whatever impetus there is to find a better home.
More importantly, are you still able to do your mod work? From the volume you described it sounds so.
But unfortunately there are subs where that is not an option either without 3rd-party tools. All the large subs will collapse one way or another unless Reddit comes up with built-in mod tools very fast. (I know they’ve said they’re “working on it”.)
You gotta appreciate the irony of Reddit demanding free labor from mods of a sub that is about labor abuse.
They should reopen and just stop doing any moderation beyond the bare minimum to keep the sub.
They weren’t forced to reopen. They were threatened with being replaced. Who gives a shit? One can’t even call this cowardly. Who fears losing an unpaid job? This is just pathetic. So much for solidarity. The r/Videos mod team called this from the beginning. They’re prepared to go down with the ship. Of course this would be the natural outcome of a prolonged strike. This is really separating the performative virtue signalling from those who care.
I’m not and never have been a mod. But can understand the conflict of not wanting to reopen but if you don’t you lose a position that you’ve spent a lot of time and energy. They’re probably passionate about their community. Giving that away and seeing someone else destroy all your hard work? Glad I’m not that invested.
Don’t forget the addiction to power. Yes, there are all kinds of moderators.
I love how the many users are quick to call mods power hungry. Some of these people spent hundreds of hours building up a subreddit and maintaining it and you call them power hungry because they don’t want to lose what they worked so passionate for - for free.
This is such a common attitude, and it’s nonsense. Non-moderators think moderators are “power hungry” when they ban people. While there are some few exceptions, moderators don’t ban people because they like power. Moderators ban people because they’re disruptive and causing trouble.
What moderating is really like, part 1
What moderating is really like, part 2
99% of the people I’ve banned who were not obvious spammers or bots are one kind of troll or another. Usually they fall into three categories: Concern Trolls (“But I’m only saying this for your own good!”), Factoid Trolls (“I’m here to tell you the TRUTH!”), or Disruptive Trolls (dick picks, offensive memes, slurs and racism, etc.).
Roughly 1% of the people I ban apologize for their mistake, remove their rule-breaking content, and either follow the rules or quietly leave.
I regularly get called a power-hungry mod by the crybabies who get angry when they aren’t allowed to break the very clearly stated rules, and repeat their offenses after getting first, sometimes second warnings. They run to other places and go try to stir up other crybabies to come and cause the same kind of trouble.
Moderating is tireless and endless. Jerks don’t get banned for saying “Dur the mods suck! Free Speech!” Jerks get banned because they think the rules are for other people, or because they think that the rules are wrong so that means they don’t have to follow them.
Thank you for coming to my Moose Talk. (Ted is taking a nap right now.)
Not only that but handing over the sub to people who might be power-hungry and/or abusive. Hard to see a community you’ve worked for be taken over by those who don’t care about it.
It’s called the sunk cost fallacy. “I can’t possibly quit because I’ve put so much time/money/effort into this.”
True, but there is a real danger of changing the tone and direction of a sub with a mod swap. That sub has gone through it.
But… they are literally the mods of r/antiwork, a community based around calling out unfair treatment by bosses and gathering strength to quit and find better employment.
You can’t make this shit up, it’s so stupid - it’d be unbelievable if it weren’t for the fact that it actually happened.
