meep_launcher
I think the reason I don’t follow that idea is that it sounds so similar to Neville Chamberlain’s “Peace for our Time”. The slaughter would just be put on pause, but would last longer and become more dangerous in 2 years time.
I see a difference between that and the handling of Gaza, which Trump would very much continue supporting Israel on. He wouldn’t put American troops on the ground, but he’s been saying his peace plan is for Israel to “get the job done”. This is very much what we did in Afghanistan and Iraq, and we saw how that played out. I understand there is a belief that stopping support for Israel means the death of Israel, but with BB, he is only accelerating this by continued genocide of Palestinians.
There are idealists (and I will fully admit some anti-semites) who would love to see the end of a Jewish state, and there are those who would look for a two state solution. Trump and BB have made it clear that they are not for a two state solution and are pushing for complete annihilation of the Palestinian people. Trump is not a peacemaker.
I can’t speak for Elizabeth, or for many other supporters, but I can tell you why I supported her and not Bernie.
While I agree with so much of Bernies platform, I just wasn’t convinced he was a pragmatic candidate. When asked how he would handle Mitch McConnell, his response was essentially “Our revolution will take care of that- voters will listen to my message and I won’t have to deal with him”. That wasn’t really the question, and I just didn’t see that as a good answer. It solidified my thoughts that he was an idealist who was pushing for great things and was very much needed, but when it came to the cold realities of getting things done, he wasn’t someone who I thought could negotiate with republicans.
I also was very wary of populists. Bernie was very much a left wing Trump only in that he built a very deep cult of personality. Everyone who I talked to, every poll I saw, every post I read cemented the idea that it was Bernie or bust. Especially now as I am terrified of a Civil War 2 breaking out, the stance of non-negotiation is not only ineffective, but dangerous.
Idealists play a very important role in any movement. They create the energy needed to push things forward. However in the position of Commander in Chief, the virtue needed is restraint. I wanted to find a balance between progressive policy and pragmatic restraint, and so I saw Warren as the better of the two options. 4 years later I’m not as excited about her as I was then, and much of the details are fuzzy, but I know this is broadly what I thought.
I know in this thread there will be a lot of mud slinging and calling those who disagree with Bernie of 2020 or their supporters as stupid and/or evil, but that stance is exactly what I saw as divisive and dangerous in a time we need to avoid division and violence. Not all of it was Bernie’s fault, but I also know Idealists can push other idealists further to extremes. We are in a prisoners dilemma, where if we choose the path of getting everything, we will get nothing.
Edit Just to clarify, most of my friends supported Bernie, and they are not stupid. There are a million reasons why he was the best candidate, and many times he worked with republicans. At the time, I saw Warren as more of a 70/30 progressive and Bernie more 80/20.
I very much remember Liz was the last hold out on endorsing Biden. I was on her campaign.
Edit to add evidence:
Bernie Endorsed Biden Monday, April 13th 2020
Elizabeth followed 2 days later on Wednesday, April 15th 2020
Gotta say, there is no high like going freelance and actually making it work. Fuck employers.
