A lot of Russians support the war, though. Those deserve what they’re getting. And they’re very lucky it’s the Ukrainians invading them, not the Russians.
But how many of them support the war because the only media available is Russian state propaganda?
the answer is - it doesn’t matter. the biggest learning from the nazi germany was that you don’t need the entire population of a country to be homicidal psychopaths. all you need is a small group of those psychopaths, control or media, propaganda and you get a perfectly functioning system where normal everyday folks go to their normal everyday jobs.
just those jobs are in gestapo. or in maintenance of gas chambers. or making food for the equally confused soldiers.
of course, we should avoid civilian casualties as much as we can (but apparently russian army is not required) but the system needs to be stopped.
russia has cancer. chemoterapy is not a pleasant procedure that affects both ill and healthy cells. the alternative is, unfortunately, to allow that cancer to spread to the entire planet.
I’m just saying we can’t just assume these people would be in favor of the war if they weren’t forced to only consume pro-regime media. I’m sure a lot of North Koreans support the Kim regime because they’ve been indoctrinated since childhood with basically no accurate information about anything, so they just don’t know. But if you read the accounts of the ones who do end up escaping to the south, they’re just floored by how the world really is.
I’m all for having sympathy for Russian civilians and even soldiers in some cases. I get that overt opposition to the war (and even calling at a war) is a very dangerous opinion to have out loud in Russia. I’m very sympathetic to those citizens that oppose the war and the administration, but keep quiet about it. I wish they’d do more, but I don’t expect most Russian citizens to stick their neck out like Navalny did.
All that said, Russian propaganda isn’t magic brainwashing that entirely prevents rational thought. It’s just propaganda, and many (possibly most) Russians know that it is propaganda. Unlike North Korea they’ve still had access to alternative news sources (all maybe not for much longer). They have had plenty of time to smell the bullshit and look for less biased news.
The propaganda does make it harder for the average Russian citizens to recognize this war for the atrocity it is (or even a war), but they’re not brainwashed zombies, and they’re also not morons, so they’re still responsible for their choices. If they choose to actively support this war, or if they choose to actively support this regime, that puts some blood on their hands - even if it’s mostly because they chose to continue to live in ignorance despite all the signs.
All that said, Russian propaganda isn’t magic brainwashing that entirely prevents rational thought.
You could say that about fundamentalist religion too, and yet there are a whole lot of extremists out there of various religions and a big part of it is that they were indoctrinated from birth.
A lot of Russians have no idea what’s going on. Rural communities get their information from state media and their local politicians.
I remember people in rural areas of my East European country being interviewed about politics and they were completely clueless. Some thought the president was still the same guy who was violently overthrown in bloody revolution over a decade before. Many would vote for whoever their mayor told them to vote for. I remember someone being asked why she’s voting for someone and her answer was “because he’s the president” (he was running for a second term). She honestly didn’t know how it all works and found it natural to vote for the president, not some other guy.
So yeah, if people like that are told those guys are oppressed and we sent an army to liberate them, they’ll believe it and support the war. That doesn’t mean they deserve to be victims of that war.
I get what you’re saying but it’s still supporting the war. It’s like if someone grew up bigoted because of their upbringing. Guess what, they’re still a bigot.
Your choice to be ignorant about the world doesn’t excuse you when the world bites you in the ass. We can only hope the war at their doorstep is a wakeup call.
You realize the interview only showed the people who give the best sound bites? I bet you could find someone living in Washington DC who still thinks Clinton is President. And maybe someone who thinks Hillary Clinton is President.
People are responsible for who they vote for. Being uneducated is not a good excuse when there’s only a few choices. It’s not like they’re being asked to run the entire country. If they are voting, they have a major responsibility and entire years to make up their minds.
Those villages didn’t have electricity or running water at the time. They lived in the middle ages. My wife’s grandparents lived in such a village. Her grandfather was thrown out by his parents as a kid because he was too small. He lived in the woods, surviving on roots and berries for years. Who is president was the least of his concerns. If the guy who gave him a piece of land to call his own told him that the best candidate is X, then that’s who he’d vote for.
There were thousands of villages like that one all over the country. Reporters didn’t need to hunt for he best soundbites, just pick a random village and you’ll get all the material you need.
In most of those placed the mayor would come down before elections bringing gifts and telling them how everything they have is because of his party. And they have no reason not to believe him, since he’s the only contact they ever have with any type of politics.
“Support the war or go to jail for 10 years!”
How many are going to take the 10 years?
A lot of Americans supported the equally illegal invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, I still don’t think they deserve even how shitty their non-occupation civil government is.
Given how war works I’m almost certain there will be war crimes against the civil population here. Not as bad as what the Russians are doing in their occupied territories I sure as fuck hope and expect, but worse than anyone deserves. I can see Ukrainians getting to be a bit vindictive etc about this, they’ve earned it, but as armchair commentators online at a safe distance we should fucking show some empathy for people in a shitty situation they have very little control over.
I can’t control my government and I live in a democracy. I don’t blame Russians for most of what their state does either.
That’s some serious revisionist history to claim the invasion of Afghanistan was illegal. How do you define what’s an “illegal” invasion anyway?
UN law. Oh, look, turns out those don’t apply to Security Council members if they don’t want them to, weird.
You are underplaying the struggles of civilians in a war zone just because they happen to live on the wrong side of the border.
A lot of Russians support the war, though.
You’re not making a point here about the situation, but you are making a point about yourself.
Don’t suggest you’re okay with collective punishment: we’re supposed to still hate war crimes.
