This is true. The six assurances reaffirms that the United States doesn’t view Taiwan as a sovereign nation under either Taiwanese or Chinese rule. The main points it states is that the US will continue to supply Taiwan with weapons, it will not be involved with negotiations between the PRC and Taiwan, Taiwan is not a sovereign state and China is not recognized as having sovereignty over Taiwan.

So the US doesn’t think China has sovereignty over Taiwan while also saying they do not support Taiwan independence.

Basically it’s another way for the US to feed the military industrial complex while keeping the possibility of war in our back pocket without disrupting relations with our #1 trade partner.

I would say that suicide is not patriotic to anyone.

But you have nothing to say to about America not allowing integration with China without launching a world war? Curious.

The PRC has never owned Taiwan

What a fucked up imperialist framing. The PRC doesn’t own China, it is the current government of the sovereign nation of China which has included Taiwan for a very long time and still includes Taiwan. You don’t say that the Democrats don’t own Alabama, but you apply an idiosyncratic standard to argue that the US is justified in turning Taiwan into it’s military proxy and threatening to send millions to their death over reintegration of a territory that is quite literally by all standards part of the same nation as the mainland.

Also, it doesn’t matter about the ethnicity of the population because, at the end of the day, they don’t want to be part of China.

You are talking about people who suffered under the White Terror for 40 years, which included torture and murder of anyone who disagrees with the KMT. The individual beliefs of the residents is a direct result not only of the indoctrination from that White Terror but from the heavy indoctrination by European propaganda for many many decades.

What matters is that there is no way from Taiwan to be independent. It will either be part of the imperial bloc and therefore a military threat to China and a base for Western imperial power projection and containment, or it will be administered as a province of China and the Europeans will be kicked out of their foot hold. This is why the conflict exists, not because the people in Taiwan care one way or the other, but because independent Taiwan is a strategic position for the European imperial order. China will integrate it because it is required for Chinese national security, which serves not merely the people of the mainland but also the people of the island. It would be tragic for the US to turn Taiwan into another meat grinder in its bid to use proxies to maintain its global oppression.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB1016587423567462560

Keep being an orientalist. US soldiers say the exact same thing. They are willing to die for their country. Sounds like the US has an army full of dead guys.

I think almost every independence movement is a bit like a Rorschach Test; people see in them what they want (or can).

In this discussion here you learn basically almost nothing about Taiwan, its history, or why and what its people want, but you sure learn a lot about the political worldviews of everyone who participated. Your comment here is an excellent example of that, even better than the one I replied to first.

And btw, I don’t justify any claim. I’d rather support Taiwans de jure sovereignty (over the island, not over all of that 😅) if that’s what its population want. And I doubt that this CCTV documentary is gonna change my mind, but still plan to watch it cuz I’m still trying to understand why most Chinese propaganda is so lame 😂

Countries don’t OWN their land, they are sovereign over their territory. Quite literally no government of China EVER owned Taiwan, but all governments, including this one, have been sovereign over Taiwan. It’s just that Taiwan was illegally occupied by separatists and European imperial powers. The sovereignty does not inhere to the party in charge any more than the Democratic party can own Alabama or the Republican party can own the Florida Keys.

The PRC and the KMT are not separate countries. You are inventing a new way of thinking that you do not apply literally anywhere else in the world. Cuba was never part of the United States. It’s not republican nor democrat nor confederate. The working families party didn’t exist before it existed, does that mean it can’t win elections now? You are confusing political movements for sovereigns. China is the sovereign. The KMT was the party in charge for a very short period of time and they didn’t operate much on Taiwan island. The PRC demonstrated that it had overwhelming popular support and won the war and it took over control of China, which includes Taiwan. The KMT and the PRC are not separate countries and that you Western beligerrents keep framing it that way is completely disingenuous with no basis in reality, history, law, or precedent.

People believe what they want. White people in Turtle Island call themselves Americans, and white people in Africa call themselves Afrikaners. But we are objectively still European :)

The dinosaurs inhabited that island longer than humans. The true owner is the lizard people.

That’s not how ownership works. God you liberals are so annoying.

You can’t just act like history didn’t happen.

That’s literally what you’re doing.

The people that live there NOW see no value in being Chinese

THEY ARE CHINESE. They are literally Chinese. They even claim to be the REAL CHINA. You are ridiculous.

That simple, everything else is playing a pointless game.

It’s not pointless. The number of people the US, Britain, France, Netherlands, and Spain killed in Asia ever since they figured out how to sail the blue ocean is unfathomable. That genocidal regime hasn’t ended. It continues to occupy large portions of the Asia-Pacific region, it continues to extract billions of wealth from the region every year, it continues to spread militarily in the region to crush any opposition to their genocidal dominance. And part of that regime is the existence of Taiwan as a separatist region, as a military outpost for the West, and as a potential location for undermining Mutually Assured Destruction to give the US license to launch nuclear war without risk of retaliation. It’s not a pointless game. It’s but one of the fronts in the battle to finally end the 600-year genocidal reign of the West.

The problem, of course, is that you’ve come wading into an argument with absolutely no evidence. Here are the actual opinions of the citizens of the Republic of China:

As you can see, the most popular options are “Decide later” and “Decide never”. “Independence now!” as a choice has never quite beaten “No response”.

Nor is that really surprising - independence as a political project only appeared in the mainstream in any capacity with the founding of the DPP (Democratic Prograssive Party) in 1986. For the first 37 years, the island was controlled exclusively by the KMT (Kuomintang) as a one-party military dictatorship that not only considered itself part of China, but the rightful rulers of the whole of China! Here’s the insignia of the RoC Marine Corps, showing the full extent of the territories claimed by the Republic of China:

As you can see, it not only includes the mainland but large areas of several neighbouring states including almost the whole of Mongolia. The KMT old guard, as much as remain in politics anyway, are actually furious about the idea of claiming independence, because it would mean renouncing the whole rest of China!

74 years is a single lifetime. The US has lasted longer than that and it will eventually be completely removed from the world map through decolonial struggle. 74 years for a small separatist movement to be protected by European powers who dominated China for centuries does not suddenly grant new moral, ethical, political, nor legal standing. They are not a firmly established democratic nation of their own, they are a Western vassal and proxy, and as the world financial system dedollarizes Taiwan will slowly shift its stance back towards China. China has every intent in creating the incentive structures for integration to be the correct choice for the people of Taiwan. Given that when it started support for integration was met with death, the current state of integration polling is a good sign that things are slowly moving in the direction China wants them to. And the people of Taiwan are not blind to nor ignorant of what the US does to its proxies.

Integration will eventually happen.

What people consider themselves is unimportant. Taiwanese is not an identity, it’s not a culture, it’s not a nation. Just like the Confederacy isn’t a separate nation and the people who identify with it aren’t a separate nation. Identity is historically and communally constructed. The history of Taiwan under the KMT is literally the history of a Chinese military executing a terror campaign for 4 decades and collaborating with imperialist powers. That’s it. That’s the history. That doesn’t make a separate culture, it makes a separate political group. There’s a big difference.

Taiwanese IS a separate culture, but only in reference to indigenous Islanders. Calling the genocidal KMT “Taiwanese” is as bad as calling the occupying white French people in Haiti “Haitians” or occupying white English people in Jamaica “Jamaicans” or occupying white Americans in Hawaii “Hawaiian”.

The REASONS people don’t want to be part of mainland China are illegitimate reasons, just like the reason for the Confederacy to secede was illegitimate. The REASONS people in Taiwan don’t want to be a part of the mainland include: the KMT killed everyone who wanted to be a part of the mainland, generations of people were traumatized by the mass murders and taught their children to believe things based on that terror, Western imperilaists propagandize the island relentlessly to move public opinion towards Western interests, Western imperialists have created financial incentives for the upper class in Taiwan to adopt a pro-Western stance to support Western interests, Western imperialists have meddled in the political and cultural affairs of Taiwan since the KMT fled there to create political conditions favorable to the West.

None of these are legitimate reasons for Chinese people in Taiwan to claim a new identity. Also, none of these are sustainable reasons, which is why China will only invade Taiwan if the West moves to create new military threats via their control of the island. Without that provocation, China will integrate Taiwan slowly, by creating incentives and decoupling Taiwan from Western interests. As the dollar collapses and US economic hegemony falters, the incentives will start to drop. As China continues its counter-intelligence against the US and continues influencing Taiwan and the region, Taiwan will move towards the mainland over time. The West must not interfere with this process.

And you’re wrong that people want to go into Taiwan and take people’s home. China is very clear - one country, two systems. The people on Taiwan stay there, but they would no longer have Western military bases there. The Chinese military would defend Taiwan as one country. The foreign policy stances would be decided by the party and include the interests of Taiwan against the West. Laws in Taiwan would remain the same at first and through democratic processes, the people of Taiwan would slowly integrate their system and the mainland to create the best system possible.

None of this is taking people’s home. China operates the most complex multi-ethnic multi-system country in the world. Unlike how when the US comes in and colonizes, China has demonstrated for decades what coexistence and autonomy look like.

You imagine you have an enlightened political position that sees both China and the US as evil. You think you have any reasonable opinion on China despite being totally ignorant of the country, it’s politics, and it’s history. You think China represses those they consider less worthy while it is currently the world leader in multi-ethnic autonomy. You think China has a privacy problem despite all of the revelations about the West’s truly complete domestic spying on literally every thing including doorbells and baby monitors.

You are ignorant, and you use that ignorance to develop an imagined political stance that literally only Westerners hold. There are no other people in the world who think your position is reasonable, let alone informed. It’s a purely western construction, emerging from systemic Western propaganda and individual Western ignorance. The more you study China, the more your position will change.

I would know. I used to believe what you believed.