Comment by nilloc@discuss.tchncs.de on Will libs have a collective realization about Ukraine like they did with Iraq or will they stay stubborn in it forever?

I think a material difference between Iraq (v2 anyway) and Ukraine is that they can keep doing the “well Russia was the aggressor” thing indefinitely even if the reality is more complicated.

also yes obviously some libs are still stubborn about Iraq, the worst ones, but for the most part its generally agreed that the Iraq War was a bad thing.

I and a lot of others protested the Iraq invasion before it took place, and predicted the somewhat obvious quagmire that resulted. I would have protested the Russian invasion as well if I were a Russian citizen and if it would have been safe enough to do so (Putin’s dictatorship makes that purely hypothetical though).

Did you also protest the NATO coup in Ukraine in 2014?

I think we may disagree on the origins of the Maidan Protests, the Crimea annexation, and at this point probably even the end of WW2 and Soviet Union.

Edit: aw shit, I just realized where I am.

youre on the history channel motherfucker

Did you protest arming Nazi militias like Azov that posted videos of themselves crucifying people and burning them alive or giving them electric shocks while making them dig a grave?

That’s a lot of words for “no.”

Just say you supported the Maidan coup.

Most Westerners who watched the news did

At the time my impression was “brave Ukrainian students ousting their corrupt Russian minion of a president so they can join the EU and become a proper European country instead of a depressing Soviet hellhole”

That’s still the level most people are operating on

I think a lot of people naivly-as-opposed-to-maliciously believe what doublepepperoni said.

I think people on Hexbear often forget how different the world looks to the average person in the West

I mean, I exist in the West, I’m well aware of how bad the typical person’s politics regarding foreign countries are.

Edit: aw shit, I just realized where I am.

Love to know that we’re making a reputation for ourselves

even the end of WW2 and the Soviet Union

Average Operation Unthinkable supporter

even the end of WW2 and Soviet Union.

ain’t that some shit. please enlighten us all what you meant by this? Do you think the wrong side won the war? Are you saying you think the world would have been a better place if Nazi Germany hadn’t been defeated by the Soviet Union? We are all ears.

Based on their other opinions, I dont think they would (openly) go that far which is why I’m kind of baffled by the statement and want to know what the hell they DID mean. Like maybe they dont think the USSR won the war alone. Or they believe Double Genocide Theory? Idk.

ETA: Oh maybe its that they think Operation Unthinkable was a good idea like another poster suggested.

One of us lives on Earth, the other lives on Planet CIA.

probably even the end of WW2 and Soviet Union.

???

The nazis were talked into defeat, it was the power of love obviously

Edit: aw shit, I just realized where I am.

What do you mean by this?

Who screwed it up and gave it all back?

Again ??? What the fuck does this even mean?

The western powers put ex nazis in control in West Germany but I dont think thats what you’re asking about.

Naw, waste of time arguing with conspiracy nutters.

Conspiracy nutter is when you think history has more moving parts than a Marvel script

Your side is the one giving ten minute standing ovations to veterans of the 14th SS volunteer division to own the ruskies and re-writing history

remember after Ferguson when Putin had the US police murder several BLM leaders in separate incidents and then light their cars on fire?

If I were Russian I would have volunteered to fight with the DPR in 2014 and would be posting Z and helping destroy AmeriKKKa

Not very revolutionary defeatism of you comrade.

revolutionary defeatism is for use against imperialists, not anti-imperialists combatting the world hegemonic empire. If I was in Syria I would be fighting for Assad. If I were in Iraq during US invasion I would be fighting for Saddam. If I were in Libya, I would fight for Gaddafi. The right to resist imperialism supersedes all else, it’s the primary contradiction.

Most MLs I have spoken to think revolutionairy defeatism absolutely applies to Russia and praise activists fighting the draft there.

Russia may be a lesser evil on the geopolitical stage but treating them as purely an antiimperialist force worth uncritically supporting to the point where you actually take up arms for their revanchist activities (and yes, part of the motive for Russia’s actions is revanchism, NATO encirclement and Donbass also factor in, but denying the revanchism is foolish).

Well I disagree with most western MLs and instead agree with DPRK, China, Cuba and other AES ML nations who are allied with Russia

Russia has won my trust after Syria and Belarus, they have consistently acted in an anti-imperialist manner for many conflicts now. Why they are acting in this manner is not relevant, only that they are. China, DPRK, Cuba all agree with me

Geopoltiically aligning with Russia is different from being a Russian citizen living in Russia. Do you condemn Russians fighting being drafted into a war they don’t want to participate in?

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Will libs have a collective realization about Ukraine like they did with Iraq or will they stay stubborn in it forever?

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