This week, hundreds of delegates from around the world began a monthlong meeting as part of Pope Francis’ “Synod on Synodality”—a gathering to discuss the future of the Catholic Church. It could radically change the religion. The group is considering groundbreaking alterations to orthodoxy on same-sex unions and whether or not women can be ordained as priests. The process has changed, too. For the first time, delegates include women.

A synod is a conference for church leaders and lay people to engage in conversation about how to bolster the good of the church. Since the 1960s, delegates from the global church have come together to discuss evolving issues. The current synod is part one of a multi-year process that will culminate in 2024 with Francis’ decisions and includes particularly controversial topics, like celibacy and divorce.

The lead up has been punctuated by conservative concerns about just how liberal this meeting may get. The synod kicks off days after a letter became public in which the pope considered blessing the existence of queer couples and the allowance of female priests.

Pope Francis wrote that while marriage is an “exclusive, stable and indissoluble union between a man and a woman, naturally open to conceiving children,” pastoral charity is also needed, and may be discretionary. Pastoral prudence, he wrote, “must adequately discern if there are forms of blessing, solicited by one or various persons, that don’t transmit a mistaken concept of marriage.” On female priesthood, the pope asserted that, whereas nobody can publicly contradict the church’s current rules prohibiting women’s ordination, they should study it.

For some, this rhetoric may seem like the bare minimum. But for others, like Americans on the right, it’s scary as hell.

Conservative Catholics across the U.S. have been some of the most vocal globally in pushing against reforms, and fear that the church is changing in a way that doesn’t match scripture or their ideology. One New York City priest, Reverend Gerald Murray, worried publicly that the pope “will authorize things that are not contained in Catholic doctrine or that will contradict it,” like women deacons or blessing gay unions. “We’re not Protestants,” he said.

Cardinal Raymond Leo Burke, Archbishop Emeritus of St. Louis, a vocal opponent to Pope Francis, was in the group that sent the pope a letter inquiring how he would be responding to these issues at the summit. “It’s unfortunately very clear,” Burke said on Tuesday, “that the invocation of the Holy Spirit on the part of some has as its aim to push forward an agenda that is more political and human than ecclesiastical and divine.” (Burke was not invited to the meeting at the Vatican.)

Pope Francis’ track record on queer and women’s rights is complicated. He formally allowed women to read from the Bible during Mass, but also came out against women becoming ordained. Speaking about queer people in 2013, the pope famously asked, “If they accept the Lord and have goodwill, who am I to judge them?” He has argued that homosexuality should not be treated as a crime in different countries but clarifies that he still thinks it’s a sin. Francis has framed many of these decisions as instances where localities should turn toward scripture and an evolving discernment as it befits their needs as part of his hope of growing the Catholic Church.

Because of this potential divide between local and global doctrine and application, it is possible that American Catholics may not even see these changes, should they be formally supported by the pope but not adopted by local priests.

As Mother Jones previously reported, American catholicism has splintered as some of the devout entrench themselves in wider conservative politics. Right-wing provocateurs like Milo Yiannopoulos and Steve Bannon notably have moved in Catholic circles saying Pope Francis should be curtailed. Yiannopoulos, who touts a traditionalist form of Catholicism, has been telling anyone who will listen to him, to “make the Vatican straight again” and “make America homophobic again.”

The pope himself seems unfazed by the ire of American Catholics. “They got mad,” he told reporters in late August after a squabble. “But move on, move on.”

131 points

Until they start paying tax and stop molesting children all of them can fuck right off.

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74 points
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As someone who is not an only atheist but an anti-theist, I have no love for the Catholic Church and either its ancient, middle-age, or present form. However, I’m also a realist. For the Catholic Church to even be publicly willing to discuss such matters (especially things like LGBTQ issues and female ordainment), well, even I’ll admit that something decent may come from this in the end, even if it’s not all what decent society may want (or demand).

In its history, the Catholic Church has been on of the world’s most renowned institutions for being inflexible in its conservative dogma. Extremely rarely do the even ever discuss openness, especially publicly, to changing doctrine. This is one of those extremely few times. I would be extremely shocked if nothing came from this, especially considering the current pope.

Certainly, there are many tractors that will hold back the more radical of proposed changes, but now is the time where we will see any serious changes were likely to see for a long time within the Catholic Church. I’m excited to see what manages to get done at this synod.

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34 points

I am sure this is a “be careful what you wish for” moment, but part of me is hoping that the American conservative Catholics are insane enough to try appointing their own Trump-aligned antipope and schism from the church, just so that the more rational Catholics in the US can have their literal “Come to Jesus” realization about how far gone the political right has become.

I firmly believe that there is a scary number of Americans who would get behind such a move. But at this point, I have just about accepted that the political divide in the US will not end peacefully, so if that’s our fate, I’d like to at least have the lines drawn cleanly.

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16 points

You’re describing every form of Protestantism since Martin Luther.

C’mon…

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0 points

For the Catholic Church to even be publicly willing to discuss such matters (especially things like LGBTQ issues and female ordainment), well, even I’ll admit that something decent may come from this in the end, even if it’s not all what decent society may want (or demand).

Nothing will come from this.

It’s not a “huh, maybe we were doing something wrong, maybe we should change” meeting, it’s a “Oh, the peasants are getting uppity again, quick, say that were graciously considering human rights or something to calm them down” meeting.

It’s the KKK holding a meeting considering on whether to allow black people to join.

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-1 points

We don’t want something decent to come from the Catholic Church, though. It’s the fact that they are so backwards and hateful that is causing them to lose adherents like crazy. This is what needs to continue. Making moves like accepting women and LGBTQ people only helps them stay alive even longer.

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-12 points
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Hey Hitler killed Hitler, so call it even?

Nah fuck those robed pedophiles till we strangle the last politician with the last ones entrails.

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18 points
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Wtf. I’m saying that the Catholic Church only makes major changes to dogma once a millennium or so, and I’m pretty interested in what they’re gonna do since it affects the lives of countless billions of people. You can quibble over the fact that you don’t get all you want, and I agree that they’re still a shitty theistic monolithic organization, but I was talking about what benefits a change in their dogma would bring, not fixating on the shortcomings.

I’m not your enemy.

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7 points
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Deleted by creator
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10 points
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Deleted by creator
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2 points

Isn’t that like, part of the vows or something?

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6 points

not just that but literally from this article:

“marriage is between a man and a woman”

no it fucking isnt. Source: all the places where you can get married without being a man and a woman.

they are saying pasta can only have red sauce while i eat a bowl of carbonara in front of them.

the best one can do now is say “marriage *should go back to being between a man and a woman”, which they won’t because they’re fucking cowards.

they should own up to their own stupid ass beliefs.

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-3 points

Hahaha funny how teachers are more child molestors than prists :)

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86 points
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Yiannopoulos, who touts a traditionalist form of Catholicism, has been telling anyone who will listen to him, to “make the Vatican straight again” and “make America homophobic again.”

My dude, you are queer. You married a man and were proudly gay until a year ago. You’re only just now faking a successful conversion to the straight life so your new Nazi friends don’t lynch you in town square.

Go back to Britain and stop making American politics worse than it already is. Or stick around and don’t act surprised when you inevitably get “Night of the Long Knives”-ed.

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47 points
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I went to google when his change happened (March 2021, for the record) and apparently since then he’s taken up the cause of fundraising for conversion camps… so that’s fun

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6 points

Have you seen his pitch video for a Virgin Mary statue?

https://twitter.com/RightWingWatch/status/1460270627651305476

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34 points

The most vicious persecutors are those who attack in others what they repress in themselves.

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0 points

Hypocrite

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6 points

I never thought of Milo as a fitter Ernst Röhm with highlights.

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81 points

Reverend Gerald Murray, worried publicly that the pope “will authorize things that are not contained in Catholic doctrine or that will contradict it,”

Correct me if I’m wrong, but Catholic doctrine is what the Pope says it is. The Pope is supposed to be God’s representative on Earth, or some bullshit like that.

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41 points

Yes. You wouldn’t believe how many Americans think they know their god’s will better than god though.

I’ve said it for decades but misogyny is something conservatives will never let go. It’s part of their identity.

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12 points
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Misogyny is literally baked into the Bible.

1 Timothy 11-12

“A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.”

1 Corinthians 14:34-35

“Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.”

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4 points

As an ex-Catholic and a strong atheist, I feel the need to point out that Catholics do not subscribe to the doctrine of sola scriptura - Biblical literalism as defined by a human institution - and considers it borderline heretical.

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15 points
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That was exactly my thought. Reverend Gerald Murray doesn’t seem to know some of the basics of Catholicism.

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13 points

The same verses that the Pope drives his authority from say that he can so change stuff. Matthew 16:17-19.

17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter, b and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades c will not overcome it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be d bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be e loosed in heaven

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7 points

As Lord Jiraiya’s representative on Earth, I can confirm this

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5 points

12 years of Catholic school here and you would be correct, sir/madam.

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72 points

So Vatican 3 basically.

Back in the day mass was done entirely in Latin and the priest didn’t address the congregation. This didn’t change until the '60s. Some sects are still pissed off over it

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11 points

Wait, what… we aren’t even done with Vatican Council 2! 🤣

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7 points

Don’t sweat it. These days nobody completes their papal backlog. It’s a running meme.

Just make sure to wait for the Christmas sales.

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5 points

It turns out that The Vatican and Valve have more in common that previously believed.

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48 points

“God is love.” -god

“That bastard!” - conservative worshipers

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5 points

I feel like the most galling thing about xtianity is that you can be the most violent, murderous, racist, homophobic pos forever and, per doctrine, you’ll still be welcomed into heaven no matter what so long as you believe that the invisible sky friend exists.

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