It’s almost like both sides are stupid and wrong and just wants to shout at each other without giving any solutions. Both sides just want to be right while society suffers because both sides won’t just shut the actual fuck up. Sick of feminist ideology, sick of aggressive males. Why won’t you all just shut the fuck up with your bullshit. Especially fuck your egos with your identity politics shite whether your a white nationalist tard or a blue haired woke tard.
100% agree. Modern day society tells Men to actively express their emotions and feelings without actually providing good, logical advice that helps improves Mens lives and get them out of their depressive states.
Instead of teaching Men to observe and regulate their emotions to become better and find purpose. Now society is encouraging to trap them in an emotional cycle where we need to be dependent on people.
And still society wonders why so many Men are radicalised by gurus like Tate, which is also no good as it comes with mysoginistic opinions and same old conservative beliefs, how Women should be treated.
However, whether people like Tate or not. He definetly has impacted Men and lit a fire underneath. Maybe improved individual lives. After all, Tate saw a weakness in society (Men depression and suicide) and took advantage of it for his own personal gains.
What society needs now is actual Male Role Models. This is where ancient greek philosophy Stoism can be one of the useful solutions to this issue, which should be taught in education systems.
I don’t like the social engineering trying to tell men what to do, how to think and how to behave.
I agree to this to some extent. However as you say, letting Men live how they want by being free is what modern society have always been telling them. Yet no purpose, no goals, dreams, motivation? Every human needs a mentor to guide them through life. If you look into stoism, you will understand what I am saying. These ancient greek gods knew their stuff and they were emperors and masters for good reason.
If men have no positive role models and no framework through which to interact with their emotions and their place in the world, they will find horrible role models like Andrew Tate and come up with crude and self-serving frameworks through which to view the world. Since people find religion cringe for some reason nowadays, personal philosophy and virtue ethics are now our only good option.
Why won’t you all just shut the fuck up with your bullshit.
It would be nice if we all looked around at what’s happening in the world, recognized what we can change, what we can’t, accepted our differences, accepted that we’re human, tried to work together, shook hands and let the best win, whatever.
In this climate, there are too many individual biases in place that prevent that from happening in a way that’s ideal, though - none of us are immune from that, either, unfortunately.
We can work toward it; I’m more interested in practicality, for example, and I try to be aware of my own biases while recognizing the biases of others, without judgement - or at least, with minimal judgement that’s impersonal.
Some people will always be harder for me to connect with than others. That doesn’t make them bad - it’s just a part of the human condition. And sometimes those connections are still very feasible.
It’s usually ok to be “wrong”. It’s usually ok to have an opinion that doesn’t jive with the norm.
It’s complicated. There’s many aspects of feminism that make perfect sense, and it’s more than reasonable for the issues that feminists raise to be discussed. Many (perhaps all - I don’t have a list off hand) are totally legitimate.
There are approaches to feminism that are counter productive…or even just…cringe.
The same could be said for almost any other political issue.
People have been unjustifiably exploited by political issues as well.
I think the media, in general, is problematic. We all rely on it, but it’s too powerful, and the people who have control over what it produces naturally exploit it.
Above all, it’s best to work toward preventing external factors like the media from controlling how you think and feel.
It’s not easy. We all succumb to it in one way or another. Sometimes it even serves a purpose.
The more we’re aware of it, though, the less control it has.
The media is also a tool. One that’s useful. It’s not black and white.
In general, the more we’re aware of how a system itself is designed, and how that affects us, the better.
I know people from many different walks of life who voted for Trump or lean more in the direction of the right; I hold nothing against them for that.
Working toward the interests of society - the best outcome for the majority of people - would be the ideal, but in a way that’s diplomatic and didn’t involve shouting at each other over the Internet.
We might not necessarily be in a position where we can even do that, or at least as well as we could have 10 years ago.
That’s kind of scary.
Anyway, maybe in your case the right thing to do is just take a deep breath; put your phone down, and do something else.
That’s at least what I’m going to do.
Humans definitely gonna human tho.
Understanding that and finding a way to navigate it in a way that’s fruitful is key…
while recognizing that, you too, are human.
Someone: “My gender transition is almost complete.”
Society: “No, not like that!”
Thus comes forth the popularity of Andrew Tate.
Patriarchal society wins again😎
I would love to create a community on here for men’s mental health and (actual) issues, but I’m afraid it would get invaded by the toxic masculinity crap.
Isn’t this exactly part of the problem? Men have been gaslit into “being a man” on one side, while also being taught to fear “toxic masculinity” if they try to discuss their problems in group/digital settings. It seems no matter how such a community behaves there will always people that push both of these narratives. But they’re not part of the solution, so I’m not sure I’m gonna take them seriously.
Guys being gas lit into “Being man” is the toxic masculinity I am talking about.
“I find it kind of funny, I find it kind of sad…”, what actually does people think toxic masculinity is? The one you’re replying to seems to have been tricked into believing that feminists think that all masculine traits are bad. They are actually listening to the enemy of their own self best interests.
I think there might be some overlap causing confusion. Being protective and problem solving are not inherently bad, but combine it with stuff like dominating, controling and not listening to others, and it can be very harmful. So a person might believe that they are just being protective but since they didn’t listen to the other person their actions turns to controling instead.
How can you even dare do suggest such an evil thing? Everybody knows men and women are completely different creatures. There’s no way they would be able to talk about mental health together! /s
Because a lot of women perpetuate societal standards of toxic masculinity and make men feel unwelcome
Everyone deserves mental health. And everyone deserves a safe space to discuss their feelings and emotions with others in a similar situation. And I don’t want a space strictly for men. A LOT of men need to hear women’s perspectives and experiences. And process what was shared and why it is important. I don’t want men to learn how to be better men. I want men to learn how to to be happier, and better people.
There’s a benefit to having communities for all and communities focused on the different groups, may it be specific genders, ethnic groups, generations, socio economic backgrounds and so on… The support people need might be similar in some cases, it can also be very specific to who they are in other situations…
I’m on the fence about that. The internet seems so fractured, hateful, extremist and identity based, that it seems like leaning into an identity group is going to create the problems it looks to solve, in this case toxic masculinity.
Irl is a different story though.
Honestly, I agree, putting a gender slant on it, unless completely necessary, can easily arecomplicate the situation, as its putting these expectations at the front of mind. I often see this leading either into resentful sexism, or original sin type self-loathing for being a man.
I honesty just think tbe topic of gender online is so toxic, that mixing it in with mental health can cause lots of unnecessarily complications, and makes it easy for third parties to take advantage for their own ends.
Toxic masculinity is just severe insecurity and blatant ignorance with a sprinkle of lack of education. Modern day caveman only good for moving logs and building houses. They now think they deserve a place where something educated needs to be discussed and instead of understanding or trying to understand they just spout their bullshit.
Done, wish me luck.
Hi there! Looks like you linked to a Lemmy community using a URL instead of its name, which doesn’t work well for people on different instances. Try fixing it like this: !mensmentalhealth@lemmy.world
It doesn’t necessarily require strict moderation… but the mods will have to follow the Bartender’s Rule.
This is great! It reminds me of this video which in my opinion everyone should watch who tries to run a community (and everybody else should watch it as well).
The Alt-Right Playbook: How to Radicalize a Normie
Just as a shady bar can be a magnet to not so nice people, a mental health online community for specifically men on a platform like Lemmy (that probably already has a not so diverse user base) is basically a honey pot for people who want to spread certain ideologies.
The video gets reported endlessly on YouTube btw, that’s why it is “age restricted”. :( While it talks about hatred it doesn’t endorse hatred. But for some reason this gets a video age restricted on YouTube while videos which are actively hateful do not get restricted…
Yeah - I haven’t checked Reddit again but there was
Menslib, which was focused on Men related issues and discussing them from an empathetic standpoint. I’d say it were critical social discussion with a clear emphasis on men.
And there was bropill, which was less about longer discussions and more about sharing in general.
I dunno if they are still active but if you start something I’d love to join that community. So maybe write me a DM if you do? :)
Lemmy’s userbase is majority men. Yes, there will always be toxic manosphere types, but for every one of those there are hundreds of men who are ready to support each other, who need to be heard, who struggle with depression, who want to learn what healthy masculinity means in this day and age, who want to decondition from toxic masculinity, who need help to recognize that they may be a victim of abuse, who need to know that they are not defined by their height or salary, who want to learn about fatherhood, and so on.
I’m not a man, so I don’t feel qualified for this. But I’m hoping that someone can build a community on Lemmy like r/menslib and r/guycry back in reddit. These communities offered perspectives that would have otherwise remain unspoken IRL because of the pressure men face to present themselves in a certain way.
I don’t mean to pressure you into making this community. I only mean that if you do, I’m sure it will be greatly appreciated. The toxically masculinity trolls are far out numbered by normal men who are just looking for a safe place to talk without judgment.
Explain to some idiot that as a socialist you’ve gotten for conservative as you got older that you looking into the finer details of economic planning and reading into Stalin, wokes: “omg YoU hAtE gAyS” I swear a lot of social engineering these days to turn people away from these ideas and towards an emotional irrationalism with a horrible aesthetic to keep people in an echo chamber surrounded by self-reflecting identity politics chained to the predominant ideology serving capital.
