I don’t think people join the right because they are annoyed by leftists, I think they join the right because they see a bunch of people full of hatred and want to join in because of their self-centered misanthropy.
100% they just use being annoyed by leftists to hide their ideological view points. Just wanted to share this cause I thought it was funny.
Yeah, I probably shouldn’t have posted that. I didn’t get enough sleep and I’m grouchy. Sorry.
Youre all good, my upstairs neighbor were thumping bass till 5am so I feel your pain, about to take a nap before getting started on a Thanksgiving meal. My apartment complex’s solution is for me to call the Police non emergency line to tell em to turn it down, cause in their words, “the police usually scares them.” Not gonna use institutionalized violence to solve my probelms so I did an annoyingly loud loop over my guitar amp to tell them to turn it down.
It’s the same people that say Atheists are as annoying as Christians. Bro, there a lot of atheists you just don’t hear about, you’re making a lame excuse to be Christian.
To be fair, I’m sure there are dozens of legit good Christians out there…somewhere
I live in Czech Republic. Atheism is the default here. Almost nobody talks about faith, since most people don’t care, so you can’t really tell if someone is Christian.
To me, internet atheists are annoying as shit. I get it that the USA close to being an open theocracy and a lot of pushback is still needed before things are even close to normal, but still. Forceful atheism you usually see online is obnoxious, goes to extremes, the smugness is off the charts - simpmy annoying.
IMHO, the modern US is how Divide et Impera (divide and rule) looks when it has entirelly taken over the public discussion domain: identitarian wars over moralistic stuff that has no connection with real power, all the while those who have the one and only greatest power of the land - money - most of whom themselves couldn’t care less about those things, keep on milking the rest for what they still have.
In Europe, you don’t yet see quite the same warring in the moral plane whilst excluding what maters the most to most people (you know, live well in a nice place with a full belly) , though I’ve noticed that both on the Left and the Right here already quite a number of people have been “inspired” by the heavy, heavy propaganda that leaks from the US system and staked and taken identitarian sides in an environment that lacks most of the social and historical anchoring-points that exist in the environment where those chewing-gum for moralism “ideologies” were crafted.
I think to a degree the left pushes people out though, as your lefty card needs to be spotless or it’s revoked.
Sometimes a person can say one thing wrong and they’ll be labelled an alt-right fascist, and not part of “the group” on the left, especially online.
Obviously that doesn’t make people right wing, but it is a problem that pushes people away from more left leaning views/groups. Rather than try to discuss and correct, people will berate and ostracise.
Ok, I’ll bite, give me an example of “one thing wrong” that gets you labelled as an alt-right fascist.
Supporting Ukraine, or liking Stalin. Depending on which instance you’re chatting in
People don’t align with the Right because of shared political ideals, they align with the Right because the Right hates the same people they do and promises to punish those they hate.
They can scream and wail about “family values” all they want, but when they’re lined up with neo-nazis, white supremacists, and pedophiles all praising their glorious leader (who, BTW, believes that there are “very fine people” among a group who chants "Jews will not replace us! "), everyone on the outside has to wonder what “values” they are really fighting for.
Usually memes make up what one side says to make a great comeback, but in this case it’s definitely correct. People absolutely go right because of stupidity on the left, and vice versa
I thibk what thwy’re saying is, is that it is proof you have horrible moral axioms or no axioms at all if you’re willing to shift entire poolitical directions over annoyance. Constructing society MUST be done by people who are less petty and judgemental.
You’ve literally never hung out with conservatives in your life, just admit it. You have no idea who we are.
I’ve known (and know) many conservatives. While they all had very diverse reasons, the through-line is always hate. Either hate of LGBT people, women’s bodily autonomy, immigrants, POC, workers, or the poor (or all the above).
I don’t consider most of these people bad people, per se. People are complex, and many are good people in other aspects. Most don’t have any kind of power, and aren’t overt about their hatred in strange company, so it doesn’t matter much who they hate. If anything, their hatred is damaging to themselves (emotionally and socially). Though, I guess on the grand scale, they end up voting for politicians that worsen the conditions of the people they hate; and, in most cases, worsen their own conditions.
The problem of modern politics is that both sides are thinking that the other side is morally evil, while their side is morally right. The problem with this is because there is no middle ground possible, no compromise. And politics is all about compromise. So that means that the government stops serving to the people because it is in permanent lock.
Problem is that I genuinely do struggle to think of an issue that I think the right-wing are correct on. It’s not mere tribalism, it’s not “other team bad”. It is a fundamental difference in values, and worldview.
I had an honest to God reasonable discussion with a very conservative Christian man. We talked and I told him about the major problems I see today (this was before the current demonization of LGBT). Each one, like gun violence, I asked what proposed solutions the right-wing had and he conceded that every position they had was reactionary to a proposed solution by the left. I basically told the guy that I’ll vote for the group that has some kind of solution, even a less than ideal solution.
I have a lot of respect for that guy. I don’t think his position has changed but his willingness to hear me out was refreshing.
Here’s how I see it and forgive me if it’s totally off:
In the US, the part of the Right which was all about “making a better country through making life better for businesses” (the ones you could say wanted a better country just like the lefties, but disagreed on the importance of broadly sharing the benefits of it) has won, decades ago even: both the Republicans and the Democract absolutelly and unequestinably came to believe that “doing what’s best for business” - not for society, not for people, for business - is the right way to manage the country.
What you have now is the breaking down of that political thinking monopoly, because it didn’t actually deliver on its promises, especially the “when the tide rises all boats rise with it” promise (the “for the greater good” promise of that ideology, something the Traditional Left might understand even if it disagrees with the methods).
This breakdown is shaping both the Right in the US and what is seen there as Left: the Right is falling back to good old Fascist tropes - religiosity, racism, ultra-nationalism to quite a rabid level, whilst what passes for “Left” there is actually a newly built ideology, based on the moral side of neoliberalism - i.e. moral liberalism - with almost no links to the traditional Left of worker movements and the fight against wealth inequality, and which does not follow of the “the greatest good for the greatest number” ideology but rather the “people should be free to do what they want” ideology, so an ideology which is totally compatible with things like there being people accumulating obscene amounts of wealth, which the ideology of the Traditional Left is most definitelly not compatible with.
So the public face of the Right in the US are basically Fascists (with all the traditional illiberal values of that) whilst the public face of the “Left” in the US is not a Left in the Traditional sense but rather a whole new ideology created around the moral part of neoliberalism (which is by nature liberal in all things) hence said “Left”, whilst completelly compatible with things like The Low Regulation Free Market, and Wealth Inequality, is antithetical to the moral illiberal values taken from Fascism which are held by the current Right in the US.
So yeah, the only fighting going on between what people think is Left and Right in the US is between absolutellyt totally and complete opposite sides on the moral domain (liberalism vs religious and racist illiberalism), with a negligible or even non existent dispute of how to best manage the country for the greater good, so there is no “same general goals different methods” area were Left and Right might find common ground.
Things are more subtle elsewhere, at least in Europe, though neoliberalism has also conquerer the entire mainstream “center” (whether they called themselves “Left” or “Right”) in most countries, but most countries have voting systems which are not or at least not as much rigged for maintaing a Power Duopoly as the one in the US, so there usually still are more traditional left voices in the ideological field, plus the rebirth of Fascism is happenning from the fringes rather than right in the middle of one of the two Power Duopoly parties (though if you look at countries with very similar voting systems to the US one, like Britain, they’re showing almost exactly the political transformation: Fascism taking over one of the Power Duopoly parties and the “Left” being taken over by a brand new ideology created from the moral side of neoliberalism, still siding with the Economic thinking of neoliberalsim and which ignores wealth inequality.
While I am not right, I do spend some time how it can be. So, pick a topic, I might be able to explain it.
Compromise and finding a middle ground is absolutely worthless unless the middle ground is the superior stance, which it rarely is.
Quite often middle ground solution is better stance than current situation.
The fact that you see people on the right as cartoon villains means YOU are the hateful person.
People on the right wanting to take away medical treatment from trans people that we all know will result in more of them being miserable and committing suicide. That’s hateful.
Laws passed to censor any discussion of homosexuality, ensuring gay people stay isolated, closeted, and unaccepted by larger society. That’s hateful.
Silence any talk of racism lest we work to overcome it? Hateful.
We hear Trump telling us he will lock up the lefties. Believe it or not, hateful.
Trump making fun of disabled people and Republicans laughing along with? Again, Hateful.
Putting brown kids in cages, or yanking them away from their families and then losing them? Hateful.
And on and on.
Rabid right wing extremists have taken over the GOP over the last few decades. They’re the hateful ones.
Things it’s okay to hate people for:
- Their race
- Their gender
- Who they are attracted to
- Their ethnicity
- Their religion
Things it’s not okay to hate people for:
- Their shitty opinions
Thank you for saving us from the cancel mob
It does not mean they are hateful, you silly billy. It means they cannot observe the reasons for the hate.
That COULD be because they agree with it and do not want to admit, but you MUST understand how wishful thinking and ignorance to evil ABSOLUTELY produces the same result.
MLK Jr. was not calling everyone who sat on their butt evil. He called their inaction the banality of evil. It does NOT take an evil person to do a horrible thing. The fact you do not realize that means it is you who has a lot of growing to do.
Yes, inaction because of ignorance is bad. Though calling people evil because they’re ignorant is utterly counterproductive and frankly, pathetically judgemental, too.
Except they literally are, looking at the US. I’m European and I see most right-wing European politicians as just “assholes I disagree with”, but the US Republicans are literally cartoon villains at this point. Like, Trump would get labeled as unrealistic if he was an antagonist in a remotely adult-oriented movie.
And Europeans are anti-trans bigots who have begun limiting gender affirming care to minors. What’s your point?
CHOOSE:
freedom of thought, but you have to learn to work with people you disagree with slightly or find annoying: left
uniformity of thought, but you are surrounded by bleating sheep and must bleat along: right
It cracks me up how antivaxxers on the right try using the slogan “Lions not sheep”. It reminds me of how Fox News used to call themselves “Fair and Balanced”.
It’s always funny when the right start having a lot of infighting because it turns out that “what everyone thinks” turns out to be a personal choice.
A lot of younger (louder) leftists are not liberal so they enforce uniform thought in their communities and mock liberals.
Leftism is intersectional. So having communities that agree with one another but disagree with others is often the state of things. One community can get more accomplished if they agree internally. Liberals are not leftists.
Majority of people who vote left wing are liberals and most leftwing policy in the west is based in liberal values. It seems to be only a small set of people on the left that are not liberal.
This is confusing. Liberalism isn’t leftwing, it’s right-of-center at best. Most often it’s right-wing economic policies with socially left-wing ineffectual lip service. Especially with how far right the Democrats have trended since the 80s and their adoption of a corporate focused form of third-wayism. There are only a handful of representatives who could even be considered slightly left-of-center progressives.
Especially with how far right the Democrats have trended since the 80s and their adoption of a corporate focused form of third-wayism
You might wanna give "third way’ a Google, because you do not know what it means.
There are very few actual leftists at any point in US politics because leftists don’t exist as a substantive bloc of US voters. Bemoaning that people who aren’t leftists don’t do leftist things doesn’t really make a lot of sense
Tangent, but there’s a lesson with the third way that’s often forgotten.
It worked.
Conservatism was way too popular. The country was just not at a point to go further left, as unfortunate as it was. Reagan ushered in an era of conservative dominance that we’re only just now emerging from.
CHOOSE:
grouping everyone on a binary political scale with no nuances
not thinking that you’re either left OR right, but realise that you can have different opinions and preferences in different areas and those can’t always be forced into a left/right box, and that you can agredisagree with anyone, regardless if you vote for the same party or not
Really? The right around here is burning books, claiming their religious beliefs should be enshrined in laws forced on others, and openly supporting a wannabe dictator while calling anyone in their party who doesn’t agree a ‘Rino’ (Republica in name only). To say nothing of the connection to churches and their ‘flocks’
That is a lot of trying to force viewpoints on others and create a uniform viewpoint
Interesting. Why are people getting cancelled for opposing leftist views? Why are you automatically considered a nazi if you don’t agree with every facet of the left? I may be wrong here, but none of that sounds like freedom of thought. The right is full of dumb ideas, but at least they let them all be heard.
Why are people getting cancelled for opposing leftist views?
From the people who tried to cancel D&D, Rock music, The Dixie Chicks, Drag shows, LGBTQ…
Why are you automatically considered a nazi if you don’t agree with every facet of the left?
From the people who started asking if the ultra-religious speaker of the house was “secretly a Democrat” because he simply acknowledged the difficulties his adopted black son has that his white son doesn’t.
I may be wrong here, but none of that sounds like freedom of thought. The right is full of dumb ideas, but at least they let them all be heard.
From the people who shouted down a reporter for simply asking the question “do you believe the 2020 election was stolen?”
Why are people getting cancelled for opposing leftist views?
They aren’t
Why are you automatically considered a nazi if you don’t agree with every facet of the left?
You aren’t
I may be wrong here, but none of that sounds like freedom of thought.
You are wrong here
The right is full of dumb ideas, but at least they let them all be heard.
Why is this even a positive lol
Dude, people on the left don’t agree with everything on the left. That’s the entire point of this post. Grow up and have some nuence in thought. Learn to analyze what you’re told and think critically, not just repeat things you hear other people say.
Exactly. I’m a leftist and I’ve been banned by leftists for disagreeing with them.
You don’t have to be right wing to get called a nazi by a leftist
Everything you said is bullshit and d r I p p I n g in so much propaganda filth I don’t think you are an actual real person! Literally Nobody talks like this.
In my opinion it sounds a lot like what would be concluded by somebody too distant from the subject to notice details if being fed entirelly by the “opinion forming” newsmedia that has does propaganda for a specific side.
I’ve seen the exact same thing when I lived in the UK and certain newspapers kept publishing stories about very specific poor people who had morally repreensible behaviours and painting it as “all poor people are like this” (for example, they showed entire families who had lived of social security for 3 generations as portray it as a “something the poor do” even though in a country of 50 million there was a grand total of 4 families which had had 3 generations living of social security) - plenty of people who were capable of reasoning (but lacked skepticism or any analytical thinking) would, as they were meant to, conclude that “the poor are lazy and lack morals”.
People will most definitely and very genuinelly have their opinion formed against a group or ideologic domain they don’t really know well, by being fed stories of extreme cases labelled as “from that side” and their simpleminded reasoning pushed to conclude those extreme cases are actually representative.
(The same thing is done to a lot of people who genuinelly believe themselves “leftwing” - the dominant “left” thinking in places like the US and UK is shaped by “opinion makers” that claimed the “left” label, rather than being something people build by themselves “from basic principles” - it’s not by chance that the thinking of Chomsky is a lot more all-around consistent and generic than what comes out the self-proclaimed lefties in the Democrat party).
Genuine Free-thinkers are incredibly rare nowadays.
You’re both profoundly ignorant of the subject matter and very confident you know a lot about it, a.k.a. an excellent example of the Dunning-Krugger effect.
Consider the possibility that what you hear about “The Left” (just the idea that it’s an unified thing is ridiculous) from the media you consume (American, right?!) are the shocking things that will make you form the opinion others want you to have - in other words, you’re being treated as an useful idiot.
Even in the US, were whatever passes for “Left” is very much captured by the local Duopoly Of Power politics and doesn’t really tries to effectivelly achieve the “Greatest good for the greatest number” (otherwise they would be way, WAY, WAY more worried about wealth inequality and not obcessed with fragmented identitarian infighting), leftwing thinking is a range - though narrower than elsewhere - not a unified anything.
otherwise they would be way, WAY, WAY more worried about wealth inequality
Income inequality doesn’t really do anything at all, so no I pretty strongly disagree with this.
Disagreeing with a gay person’s lifestyle doesn’t make you a nazi. Wanting to punish a gay person in any way because of their lifestyle does.
Fucking leftists, they ruined leftism!
The Leftists certainly are a contentious people.
Edit: I’m actually kinda surprised they never did anything with that. Willie should have harbored the grudge for years only to attack Skinner out of nowhere.
huh, who could have thought that political opinions are not strictly binary.
That premise is incorrect, though. Conservatives don’t have political opinions. Seriously. Even the GOP platform doesn’t exist anyone. It’s all just culture war nonsense and dog whistles. And their voters know the “traditional values” white person is being erased and discriminated against and they need to stand vigilantly opposed to wokeness… How do they know? Their feelings.
“I was mad the people I tend to agree with how to fix my country were not doing enough, so I just became part of the problem.”
Like anyone on the right actually cares about fixing problems. It’s all about how they can benefit from a situation, how they can spin things to their advantage.
I honestly would probably vote Republican if they put up a candidate that had solutions to economic problems they swear is caused by the left.
But they don’t have any, because all their candidates bluster about the economy while they run on platforms centered around identity politics, religious law, and reducing women’s bodily autonomy.
Every day I have to hear conservatives complain about how “Biden ruined the economy” but they don’t seem to care all that much about fixing it. They just want to ban abortion, suppress the gays , and put Christ back in Christmas.
It honestly feels like the left doesn’t know how to fix the economy and the right just doesn’t want to.
Ah the right wing are persecuted by the left wing are they. You know you are allowed to criticize them right? No matter how much they complain about it.