The IDF’s solution to bank robbers holding people hostage would be to blow up the bank
Better analogy would be the killer in uvalde using a kid as a human shield while also shooting into the other classrooms trying to kill other kids.
Do you shoot back or do you sit around like the cops did and wait till the killer gets bored, runs out of ammo, or runs out of victims.
Just look up how many thousands of rockets and mortars Hamas has launched at seemingly random targets in Israel since October 7th.
Better analogy would be the killer in uvalde using a kid as a human shield while also shooting into the other classrooms trying to kill other kids.
Sure, and then you bomb the school to kill them all. Also bomb all the surrounding buildings just in case.
The “rockets” you’re referencing aren’t the threat you’re trying to invoke. How many Israelis have been killed by Hamas rockets ever much less since October 7th? Maybe if Israel didn’t have a concentration camp outside of their city walls they wouldn’t have to worry about the threat of retribution?
Better analogy is the Uvalde shooter also starved and killed kids in the school for generations. Then some of the starving children started throwing sharpened pencils.
Just look up how many hundreds of thousands of Palestinians Israel has killed in the last 30 years. Israel is the bad guy here, it’s not debatable.
Just look up how many thousands of rockets and mortars Hamas has launched at seemingly random targets in Israel since October 7th.
Now, if only both parties would just cease firing for a moment. Has anyone thought of that? And if: has any governmet refused to offer/accept such ceasing of firing? /s
So you think that had the US military known about the 9/11 planes 5 minutes earlier they should have still just let them hit the WTS?
Shit you’re right, I forgot that banks and hospitals are exactly the same as a plane headed towards a building
…uh… weren’t you the one who made the terrorists = bank robbers metaphor?
Yeah no, the person behind the human shield wants to kill you and your family and is actively trying to accomplish said goal.
Yeah it’s pretty much the equivalent of the trolley-problem in real life.
The question is how many casualties are “valid” before the cost is too high - and that’s just a morally impossible choice to make prefectly
People that pretend it’s a black and white question and that either pretend the IDF is 100% wrong or the IDF is 100% right are just ignoring one side if the issue completely.
In general I’d say the IDF is more often right than wrong in this conflict but they obviously fucked up, too - but at least for them it’s not the intention to cill civilians other than for the people they try to actually get to
The people killing human shields are just as shitty as the people using human shields. Both are terrorists.
Would be the best for the first asshole not to take human shields to begin with.
I’m sorry I can’t hear you over a settlement being bulldozed. Wait a second for the bulldozers to stop.
Oh silly me…they don’t stop.
You’re not wrong, but that’s not what’s happening, and it’s still not an excuse.
Can we stop using the word terrorist for something that it obviously not terrorism? Terrorist use terrorism to strike fear into the population of a more powerful state and hope for and overreaction that would play into their cards. I can only see one terrorist organization here. But, the IDF is that overreacting oppenent.
You’re right. Starving out civilians and bombing their homes doesn’t make IDF terrorists. It makes them war criminals.
And so you’re justified in killing an unlimited amount of children to get to them.
Saying things like “worse” is just picking sides for no reason.
There’s a point where you can stop measuring the cuntiness and just accept that they’re both well over the threshold of being a cunt. There’s no limit to the size of the cunt bucket. There’s no queue to get in.
They’re both cunts and the world (and especially all the civilians in the local vicinity) would be better off without them.
There absolutely are degrees. We decided to name it the “Holocaust” because what the Nazis did was hella cunty.
If Israel is under attack, does not have the resources to take these buildings with less collateral damage, and the international community will not send any military aid besides fucking bombs, then what is Israel supposed to do?
Answer: And write this down.
NOTHING.
Then give Palestinians equal rights, jobs, full citizenship. Treat them as brothers. Equals. Treating people like humans isn’t difficult if you try.
Feel free to reference this answer the next time you have that question.
Cute like a kid going “why can’t everyone just be friends?”
Don’t get me wrong, I wish this could work, I wish half of Israel weren’t ready to kill all Arabs and vice versa.
But sadly hate blinds, if not most then a lot of people.
It really is that easy. We choose our emotions. I’m not saying people shouldn’t defend themselves. But violence should be the last option, not the first. There can be a world where Jews and Palestinians coexist. But it has to be chosen, not mandated or forced.
This is the most retarded possible take imaginable. Nobody in the region wants that either.
Hamas and their supporters, of which polling shows is a large majority in the strip right now, is openly calling for the murder of Jews.
You wouldn’t have peace if you magically granted equal rights to the people who refuse to acknowledge the existence of the country that would be granting them those rights, you’d have millions of dead Jews.
You either don’t want to understand that or you just want to see dead Jews.
The thing I hate most about Israel apologists is the way that, for them, history always starts with the latest action against the country, totally ignoring its egregious actions all the way back to when it was founded by genicidal terrorist groups, who then became its official military.
Gee, ya think that maybe the support for Hamas doesn’t stem from its anti-Jewish stance? Maybe there’s something else going on that perhaps the people might be reacting to? Also, who created Hamas?
Welcome to first grade, and I want you to know that everyone here is your friend, and you should always be nice.
Well, I’m old. And it hasn’t failed me yet. When it does fail me, is when I meet toxic people with negativity. I generally limit time with them.
You don’t ask the psychopath stranger with a shotgun who installed in your living room to leave politely. Specially as he continuously moves his relatives armed to the teeth into other different rooms of your house and killing your family one by one. Israel started this beef in the XIX century with their Zionists BS. Now the people who were already living there are gagged, and bound in the basement. But we are supposed to feel bad for the psychopath when the hostage kicks and try to defend themselves. Hamas are terrorist monsters. But the IDF hands aren’t free of blood. There are people on Israeli media calling for the genocide of all Palestinian people, this is just as bad as anti-semite Nazis during WWII. The fact that people can’t see the hypocrisy is part of the problem. Israel could stop the apartheid state today. But they won’t, because genocide is the plan, violence is the plan, division and aggression is the plan.
Serious answer? It’s never going to get any better until one side or the other decides to de-escalate, and that’s never going to get any easier. The long history of provocations back and forth will never unwind. Israel, being the one in the position of power, also has a greater responsibility to back off of violence. It’s either that, or continue down the path it is on to ethnic cleansing and genocide. It is on track to be one of history’s darkest ironies that the grandchildren of the people who vowed “never again” will be the people responsible for “again.”
Yeah, that’s a hard, bitter pill to swallow, when one’s instinct is for vengeance. But it’s the truth. Another hard truth is that the humans on the other side are humans. Turning the other cheek for once would utterly shock the entire world, and gain Israel immense support and good will, including from large portions of Palestine.
Is it realistic? No, it’ll never happen. But repeating the cycle of violence hasn’t ever worked, so that’s what they should do.
My answer still stands. If the US took the 4 billion they give to Israel and instead distributed aid to Palestinians, it would dramatically improve their lives and create the material conditions for their society to flourish. Sanction Israel like the world did South Africa to get rid of the apartheid state. The answer is equality and standard of living.
Your problem is framing. If we can only frame solutions through violence, then don’t be surprised when violence continues. If it is framed through the lens of improving the material conditions of the oppressed, it solves the need for violence. Happy, comfortable people don’t resort to violence.
Edit: Something tells me you’re not gonna like my answer, because it doesn’t involve killing Arabs.
In the context of your question, the correct thing to do is for Israel to utilize scalpel-accurate precision attacks at Hamas leadership with clandestine highly experienced embedded intelligence agents, careful consideration of civilian casualties, GPS guided munitions dropped from 6th generation command & control stealth aircraft, active camouflage stealth armor with powered mech suits, gundam/metal-gear bipedal tanks, and mind reading AI brain scanners, and trillions of dollars defense budget. Duh! You idiot.
To be fair, they do have very accurate munitions. They’ve recently used them to strike many journalists and their families in their homes. Many in Gaza, but also a few in other countries. This has been the deadliest conflict for journalists in decades (because Israel deliberately targets them).
Israel definitely does have the resources to go just boots on the ground. They have more troops than Russia initially sent in to Ukraine. They could “safely” secure Gaza block by block if they wanted to.
If someone kicked you out of your home and wouldn’t let you walk on the same streets as them, what would you do? Would you cower, or would you fight back any chance you got? What if they bombed your friends and family? What if they denied you jobs? What if they denied you food and water?
What would you do?
As long as Israel exists it will be on stolen land, built on ethnic cleansing. There can never be peace in an apartheid state. No matter how many bombs they drop they will always make more enemies. There can’t be any peace on stolen land. So what should they do? Murder forever, escalate? Exterminate everyone in the region and clear it for Israel? What should Israel do if there can be no peace while it exists?
A lot of the people being killed today are children. Do you believe that the fact that some people carry out monstrous acts justifies killing children and people completely unrelated to those acts? How many children is it worth killing to kill one monster? Can you give me a number?
Let’s say you had a magic woodchipper that you could throw babies in to and if you threw enough babies in you would get to instantly kill one terrorist. How many babies would you throw in? Is it 1 to 1? Would you throw in 10? How about kids? If they’re like 4 or 5 years old, would you push them in to the chipper to get to kill a terrorist? This is what you’re advocating when you’re justifying cutting off food and water. It’s a horrible and painful death for children who have literally no idea why they’re dying and don’t even have the capacity to understand.
So what’s the number? How many children and babies is it justifiable to murder in order to kill a single terrorist?
How many resources would they need to go in with boots on the ground because it looks like they do have enough resources? (Serious question is it a dollar amount a person amount etc) If say Hamas was in an Israeli hospital and Israel didn’t have the resources to go in with boots on the ground would you find it acceptable to bomb the Israeli’s hospital? If your answer for one is yes and the other no then you don’t value Palestinians lives.
There’s a gaping chasm
“let terrorists do whatever the fuck they want.”
and
“genocide it is, then”
Particularly when the more accurate framing would be
“oh no - the terrorist group we backed over the PLO predictably attacked us as we maintained Palestine as an open air concentration camp, spouting genocidal rhetoric - guess we’ll have to kill 'em all”.
They’ve even been making calls to trusted civilians in the area to evacuate target buildings of civilians. It’s not going to change much, it’s basically “what they can do to avoid collateral without investing actual personnel”, and will probably be forgotten just like America’s fliers to Japanese citizens about an upcoming nuke.
It does basically dress the point that if they feel they HAVE to retaliate, they’re making what little effort they can to restrict it.
Not backing Hamas over the PLO, predictably getting their civilians killed and creating the pretext for the genocide they’re now committing would probably be a good start. How about not operating an open air concentration camp that’ll radicalise Palestinians against them?
Hamas are terrible, but this is a situation Israel has manufactured - they don’t get to cry about i the predicable consequences of their choices now.
To say “this is a situation Israel has manufactured” is a convenient gross oversimplification of the history of the region. Either you know this isn’t true and you’re just spewing misinformation or you’re not informed and speaking confidently.
A full history of the region wouldn’t fit in a post. Would you like to add relevant context to attempt to justify the ongoing genocide?
Let’s pretend
Pretend huh. Still not willing to admit it?
How many soldiers does it take to change a location to a military target?
Is it a percentage? Is it their presence at all?
Ok, does that apply to Israeli hospitals or public venues that had soldiers there as guards?
If the attack on those venues is terrorism by virtue of the civilians there, but not a legitimate military strike despite the soldiers being there, then at the very least, bombing hospitals and refugee camps is terrorism too even if a few soldiers and weapons are found.
Executing human shields is monstrous, and “look what you made me do” is the language of abusers.
Someone using something as a human shield makes it into a human shield. Requires just one.
How many soldiers does it take to change a location to a military target?
Could be as few as one. Which is why there’s zero tolerance for using such locations.
Ok, does that apply to Israeli hospitals or public venues that had soldiers there as guards?
It’s the same rule for everyone.
If the attack on those venues is terrorism by virtue of the civilians there, but not a legitimate military strike despite the soldiers being there, then at the very least, bombing hospitals and refugee camps is terrorism too even if a few soldiers and weapons are found.
There’s two related issues. Killing civilians and using civilian cover to conduct warfare. Both are despicable.
Executing human shields is monstrous, and “look what you made me do” is the language of abusers.
Right, though I’d put more blame on those, you know, using human shields. They’re the ones putting the humans between you and your enemy to begin with.
Given the demographics of those killed by Israel are squarely in line with the civilian population broadly (i.e. there’s no meaningful over-reprentation of Hamas, which we’d expect from purposeful targeted attacks against them), you’d apply your arguments consistently and defend Hamas attacking the IDF within Israel with similar civilian casualty rates (putting aside the whole national service, everyone is a combatant thing), right?
…right?
Thought not.
Okay, so let’s SAY it’s real then.
Shooting at human shields makes you worse. You have failed to rebut the post.
Okay, so let’s SAY it’s real then.
It is real.
Shooting at human shields makes you worse. You have failed to rebut the post.
Worse than person taking human shield to begin with, the one knowingly and purposefully putting people in danger by using them as human shields? Can’t say I agree.
Maybe Israel should stop using music festival attendees as “human shields…” that would be nice.
If they were operating behind the music festival then absolutely. Nobody should be using human shields.
The IDf operates behind every civilian in Israel - which means every civilian in Israel is a “human shield” for the Israeli state.
While we’re at it, we might just as well declare every 9/11 victim a US “human shield,” too.
