Craig Sumner Elliott, 68, allegedly shot Antonio Garcia Avalos, 40, in incident in Orange county
A California jogger was charged this week in the killing of a homeless man who was blocking the sidewalk.
Craig Sumner Elliott, 68, was jogging with his two dogs and pushing a cart on 28 September when he came across Antonio Garcia Avalos, 40, who was sleeping in the middle of the sidewalk, prosecutors in Orange county, California, said.
Elliott allegedly tried to wake Avalos by nudging him with the pushcart, whereupon Avalos started yelling at Elliott to leave him alone.
Elliott, who allegedly filmed their encounter, then brought a handgun out of his cart, prosecutors charged, adding that when Avalos stood and threw a shoe at Elliott, he ducked and responded by shooting Avalos three times.
Avalos subsequently died from his injuries. Elliott, who does have an active concealed carry permit issued by the local sheriff’s office, was arrested on 17 November in the incident.
Someone who goes jogging with a concealed gun is just looking for a reason to murder someone. This guy found one. 
In my neighborhood there is a old guy who takes his little granddaughter for walks while open carrying a gun. We live in a very safe suburban area. Some people are fucking nuts and are totally looking for a fight.
What you don’t realize is he’s open carrying to scare the granddaughter straight, she’s concealed carrying and the only thing stopping her from killing you all is grandpa.
Eh, hiking and jogging are actually a really good reason to CCW, especially if you live in a remote area. You also have to think about mountain lions and bears where I am, though. We’ve also had multiple trail abductions, 2 of which resulted in laws being passed for abduction here.
That being said, I have been sickened by the number of times I’ve heard jokes like: “This’ll give the mailman a bad time”, or, “I hope they fuck around and find out.” I completely agree, a lot of gun owners WANT to shoot someone.
He had two dogs with him. Highly doubt he’s getting mugged or attacked by mountain lions.
I feel ya. Even in a safe neighborhood, shit happens. I related a story in this thread, from just the other night, where a pit bull gave me a fright in my home. (Giant dog door for the pig, would not have kept him out. All went very well!)
Same hood, I saw a post on nextdoor.com about our cross-street, warning that were a couple of pits that often get loose. Chased a pregnant woman down the street!
LOL, I’m on the edge of town and a black bear cruised in a couple of years ago! I know, they’re not typically dangerous, but “trapped” in my house might freak one out. Wasn’t here, missed all the fun. :(
And yes, some of these fuckers are sick in the head. I’m looking for any excuse not to draw, or even reveal, my pistol. Stories like this post make me ill.
Using any handgun, or probably most rifles, against a bear is just going to make it angry. Those fuckers are tanks. Use bear spray for bears.
9mm is iffy, but a lot of handguns in the US are .45 which would do a number on a bear.
Also depends on the bear. A black bear may run at the first sign of trouble. If it’s a grizzly… Bring an anti-tank rifle just to be sure.
Almost every time I’ve gone so far as to draw a weapon, or even came close, it involved an animal. The 4-legged sort. And I can count those times, including being close to drawing, on one hand. But still… (Maybe I drew once?)
My small children are here for the week, guns in the safes, but I normally have my Colt .45 hidden on my desk.
Couple of nights ago I heard a ruckus, opened the door, and a fucking pit bull was right there running around. I have a giant dog door, that dog could have run right in. And a bear did so one time!
Grabbed the single-shot 12-gauge over the door sill, jammed one in there, went back on the porch. Fortunately, he was a happy, friendly puppy that got loose from a young family taking a walk. My relief cannot be overstated.
“That your dog?”
“Yes, so sorry!”
“Oh thank god, no problem! No problem at all!”
So no, I’m not walking the streets or woods unarmed. And no, we gun owners are not all murderous fucking nutcases.
68 years old. He probably up until now had the acuity to restrain himself in such a situation. When you get older, barriers between emotional reactions, memory, and perception, start to blur. Everyone agreed that my great uncle never hurt anyone least if all his wife of 50 years a d was known to be a calm dude, until the one day when he chased my great aunt around the house with a knife and then ran off into the forest. If he’d had a gun maybe it would have been one of the many handgun murder-suicides that happen every day. It was just a knife though, so on addition to cooking dinner or cutting a cake, she was able to outrun it.
All humans will go through this, none of them should just have whatever guns without limitations or ongoing proof of sentience.
In the past few years I’ve had a homeless fellow break into our home pushing my wife down, had one scream at my wife and push my kid, had one follow my kid being abusive, had a crazy with a broken bottle make stabbing motions towards everyone that passes while giggling. We’ve made do with pepper spray and in my case fists but I can understand a 68 year old dude carrying a gun since he probably can’t physically protect himself. His mistake was believing that having a backup plan made it safe to escalate. This made escalation vastly more likely.
Doesn’t sound like any of those stories involve a sleeping homeless man on public property though.
Public property means we can all use the sidewalk to get from A to B none of us is empowered to make exclusive use of it by blocking it with our tent, body, or homeless shit. It is perfectly justifiable to ask someone to move and it would have been perfectly justifiable to respond to a flying shoe with an ass kicking or better yet pepper spraying. Proportionality is important. Bringing a gun into it is nuts it immediately escalates it even if you don’t intend to fire. You’ve basically decided its going to be a murder or a suicide.
In the past few years I’ve had a homeless fellow break into our home pushing my wife down, had one scream at my wife and push my kid, had one follow my kid being abusive, had a crazy with a broken bottle make stabbing motions towards everyone that passes while giggling.
Maybe it’s time to take your meds?
If you’re of the opinion that there’s any credible argument for personal firearm ownership for self defense at all (perhaps you don’t, I don’t know you) then jogging alone in the city would seem like one of the better times to carry…
alright time to go for a jog! got my running shoes, sunglasses, headphones, whoops, can’t forget the gun!
I’ve seen countless americans claiming that it’s perfectly justified to drive over people if they get in the way of your car, so this is pretty on-brand.
That’s a fact of life here in Utah. Polls have shown most Utahns believe they are justified hitting or killing someone with their car, if that person is in the road (even in a crosswalk) and happens to impede their car. They truly believe this. Of course page one of our driving handbooks states “no matter the situation, pedestrians always have right of way over oncoming cars.” This should be obvious to even the lowest grade moron, but I guess that explains why it’s not obvious to Utahns - they get most of their information from supermarket tabloids and Fox news.
Man is almost 70 and still jogging and shooting homeless people while filming it! Must have been a wild life.
He had two dogs and was pushing a cart that carried his gun…
Whatever he was doing, it wasn’t jogging.
And him taking his phone out to record himself kicking the other man and yelling at him first, was likely only because he was hoping to antagonize a homeless person so he could “defend himself”.
He’s got to be one of those idiots who believe the “stand your ground” bullshit.
You can’t start kicking a sleeping man and then claim you’re a victim, but he’s gonna try
That was my first thought, reading the article. There’s no way he was just jogging. What kind of jogger takes a cart with them? I’ve never seen something like that, and I see a lot of joggers in my area.
People with children in strollers. Other than that, I’ve never seen it either.
Absolutely. This is one of the big problems with so many people carrying guns. There are many shitty people looking for a reason to use them.
He allegedly nudged the guy illegally blocking the sidewalk who responded by trying to assault an old man. Do you have a copy of the video I could not find one.
When the guy didn’t move after he “nudged” him with his cart (I would bet money that it was harder than a nudge but whatever) he really couldn’t just go around onto the street? No, he would have rather filmed himself fighting with someone than just be a normal person.
No, you shouldn’t block a sidewalk. No, you shouldn’t have to walk in the street with your dogs. Fine. But what you can do is pick your fucking battles and be the bigger person.
There’s no sane reason to condone murdering another human being instead of taking a step to the right.
You wake up to someone “nudging” you with their “cart” and expect not to be annoyed? Or, not to think they are trying to run the “cart” over you? Oh, and they have two (likely full-size) dogs with them. Would you really not go into fight-or-flight mode, really??? … Really?
But god forbid we should praise police for their response in arresting this homicidal jerk. Obviously police caused this, somehow. And are just agents of evil. Humans should be allowed to kill and rape and molest other humans with impunity. Because otherwise, some asswipe on social media might accuse you of being (GASP!!!) a “bootlicker!”
I’ve seen entire farms with less straw than this argument.
Police shouldn’t be “praised” for doing their jobs, in most cases. The majority of their day is spent fucking off unless some shit goes down, which is what they signed up for. Also, they’re legally immune from almost any action they take on the job, they’re very well compensated, with all the overtime pay they want, and if they do fuck up bad enough to lose a lawsuit, we all pay for it, not them.
So yeah: how’s that leather taste??
What a fucking coward, you threw a shoe at me? Time to die!
dehumanization is absolutely disgusting, and it’s a core part of this capitalist hellscape
I wonder if the shooter isn’t slipping into dementia or the like. One clearly has to be suffering some sort of mental illness to lose their shit like this.
I’m 52, so this is a concern for me. First hint that I’m losing it? My wife will be instructed to change the safe codes and hide the backup keys. Gets worse? Guns will all have to go.
Absolutely, right there with you.
I’m also gun owner and I feel that just like cars should have (but don’t), we need some sort of competency check-in system after a certain age. With all due respect of course, but as people age they become a danger to themselves and those around them.
