Wanna get even angrier? Since the cease fire was agreed, Israel released 150 Palestinian people. In that time, they have also made 133 new arrests of Palestinians for the crime of…celebrating the release of Palestinians.
If this were done by a movie villain, people would criticize it for being too cartoonishly evil and unrealistic.
Imma need a hardcore source for this. Not because I doubt it, but because I’d like to include it in an essay
Aljazeera is the first thing to pop up. You can likely use it as a jumping off point.
It’s the ‘arrested for celebrating’ part that we want a source for and I didn’t see any in this article about it. Just seems very odd Israel would admit such a thing, so if they did I want a solid source to share with others.
Al Jazeera is heavily biased towards Arabs. They mix lies with truths very well, creating a propagandistic media. I advise fact-checking everything that Al Jazeera says and not considering them a trustworthy source. They have zero credibility.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Jazeera_controversies_and_criticism
What makes any news showing Israel in a positive light propaganda and any news showing hamas in a positive light credible? Each side is saying the exact same thing about each other yet you chose to believe only one side as believable.
What a simplistic interpretation of reporting during war times. Reductively representing all Palestinians as Hamas is willfully ignorant. The vast majority of people here are for the people under siege.
They give sources and show evidence. That makes them credible.
Also Aljazeera shows first hand accounts of Palestinian hostages telling their stories of torture in Israeli prison while all the israeli side gives us is “a hostages aunt said this definitely happened” while prohibiting the israeli hostages to speak to the media.
Just because israel lies about everything you can’t go “well then surely the other side does too”.
Only one side can end this simply by going home. Hamas and Hezbollah have both publicly stated their only demand to end hostilities is that Israel stops it’s occupation.
they only influence the elections in Israel, mainly because that is where they are a political block
I didn’t but I guess thanks for keeping me informed. Also distracts me from my problems which are minor in comparison.
Watch carefully when you hear and see coverage about this. The people Israel had were “prisoners” while the people hamas had were “hostages.”
This kind of subtle reframing of words happens all the time.
CBS Nightly News had a story that talked about the 150% increase (don’t quote me on the actual percentage) in antisemitism acts, but anti Muslim sentiments were just “on the rise.”
It’s a double standard depending on who they’re talking about.
The one that I saw was early on, after Hamas attacked, the news reported the number of deaths from “the Hamas invasion”. After that, when Israel retaliated and started killing Palestinians, the news was reporting “the total number killed since the beginning of the Hamas invasion”. They lumped all of the deaths from both sides together and framed it as if they were all attributed to Hamas, even though Israel had killed several times as many people by that point.
Would Hamas have attacked Israel if Palestinians hadn’t been subjected to atrocities for decades?
Well ya. The Palestinians being released have been convicted of stabbing people. The Israelis were ripped from their homes.
This isn’t an even swap, this is hostages for prisoners. Framing as a hostage exchange is dishonest entirely.
They stabbed people in Israel where stabbing people is against the law.
Is that more clear? Are you trying to say stabbing Israelis is ok? Cuz you might want to be careful about advocating for violence against the civilian public. That typically doesn’t end well.
Ohh yeah. Media lives to throw details into the bin in order to drive a narrative. I think it would take a soldier familiar with the rules on prisoners of war digging for information to realize that Hamas really tried to abide by those rules for their “hostages”. It is however still a very decentralized organization and they can’t enforce such things as well as a professional military.
Doesn’t being a prisoner imply they committed some sort of crime and that’s why they are being held whereas a hostage is someone who was living life minding their own business and are now being held. Another lemming pointed out that many of the Palestinian prisoner were being held without charge but not necessarily that they did nothing wrong - sounds like it could be abused but doesn’t automatically mean it is (probably at times though).
As for the “double standard” from news reporting you’ve made big assumptions. News outlets use words to sensationalise and bend truths all the time but this works both ways. Without know the number for anti Muslim sentiment you can’t know. If anti Muslim sentiment had risen by 12% it wouldn’t be a big conspiracy to suggest that it was “on the rise” whereas a number like 150% is worth reporting especially in comparison to antimuslim if sentiment was only 12%.
I’m not saying a double standard doesn’t exist I’m just saying you might have confirmation bias in these examples.
It implies a justice system with double standards convicted them. Americans who lived through Jim Crow can tell you exactly what that means for the legitimacy of that system.
It sounds shit tbh. I suppose I’m likening it to the people in Guantanamo bay who were never charged but held there (I’m not comparing those people to Palestinians only the legal situation). As wrong as the whole thing was I do believe some of the people there were terrible people and wanted to or did cause real harm to innocent people. The same goes for the Palestinians being held, not all though and it’s very bad to think of the ones being treated unfairly. I’m pointing out some of those people are being treated fairly
You fully made that up to fit your narrative.
Most of the Palestinian prisoners hadn’t even been charged, much less received any trial.
The article states:
A majority of people on the list hadn’t been charged or sentenced for any crime
Which doesn’t do it justice. Majority could be a little more than half.
CNN’s Nima Elbagir apparently went through the list published by the Israeli government and found that 80% of them were held without anything substantial listed behind their names (40s mark).
Took civilians to a court, you say? For what? The crime of being Palestinians in the wrong place where they could be held conveniently stockpiled for later exchange? You did say they were just civilians, no? What sort of court is this? The hostage court?
Oh so now you’re starting to catch on to mainstream media’s blatant twisting of bullshit to fit their narrative?
Please don’t tell me it’s just because you’re finally seeing something you disagree with in the news…
They’ve been doing this to conservatives for years. But just now you see it …
Pretty sure conservatives have been doing it to themselves by being bat shit insane recently and considering fox news is most conservatives holy Grail and is the most deceptive, lying piece of propaganda out there, its a bit funny to hear you say conservative voices are being shut down or twisted
That’s why I only watch Fox News. They don’t twist the narrative of conservatives. /s
I hate how people treat genocide and other crimes against humanity as a reason to take teams and treat it like “you’re either with team a or team b”.
Any comment here criticizing one thing is taken as approval of “the other team” and I personally find that horrendous.
In America, we citizens haven’t had any significant question where we were presented with more than 2 options as long as i can remember.
Manufactured consent.
You’re intentionally obfuscating the reality. No one is actively taking sides with Hamas. People are simply voicing support for all of the children murdered by the IDF, which pales in comparison to any of the violence that Hamas has inflicted on Israel.
I bet you feel enlightened with your centrist take.
I don’t know if you realise but people can acknowledge that Hamas did bad things to civilians as well as Israel. The difference is some people can also acknowledge that the only reason Hamas exists is because Israel is a settler colonial state. Without Israel’s crimes against humanity, there would be no need for Hamas to exist. People also have the ability to recognise the western media’s attempt to falsely equivocate “both sides” when one is a genocidal attempt at an ethnostate backed by the most powerful nation the world has ever seen (and friends) and the other is a reaction to this.
“For forty years you try to strangle us. And then you criticize us for the way we breathe” ~ Fidel Castro.
Enlightened? Because I said I hate that people are using genocide as an excuse to take one of two sides? The situation isn’t even encompassed in two sides, the country, the government and the people (and in the case of Palestine, also Hamas) are being treated as one monolithic beings with one agreeing mind each when they are not.
I’m sorry if your “if you’re not with me, you’re against me, here’s a quote from a historical figure” routine didn’t pressure me into trivializing crimes against humanity.
Edit: I’d like to point out how I’ve been called centrist for acknowledging there aren’t two sides and this isn’t a sport event deserving of fans.
It’s conversations like this that confuse me because who exactly is commiting genocide? I’m calling the take centrist because you’re making out as if both sides are guilty of genocide when it literally is only one side (the government of Israel, the organisation that the original post refers to). It is a false equivalence. But if you think by me stating support for the liberation of indigenous Palestinians is making it a team sport where I’m somehow trivializing genocide then so be it, that’s what you think.
The definition of a centrist is completely lost on you if you think the comment you’re replying to is a centrist comment.
It’s literally both sidesing the issue by saying that both sides are equally to blame. The comment intentionally creates a lack of nuance by making it seem like this internet firestorm are Hamas vs IDF supporters.
You’re framing Hamas as being merely a reaction to Israel’s aggression, when they actively work, sometimes in collaboration with Netanyahu1, to maintain the status quo and insure they’re own relevance and power. You’re right that Hamas wouldn’t have a purpose without the occupation, and Hamas knows it.
Hamas isn’t a path to Palestinian freedom, they’re an obstacle to it. Hamas are motherfuckers; don’t defend them.
If we say Israel is responsible for the destruction wrought on her own people in reaction to her crimes, then we must hold Hamas to that standard too. But following logic like this makes everybody and nobody responsible and implies that Israel controls the terrorists and Hamas runs the IDF. It’s also precisely the Justification Netanyahu uses for the bombing.
At the end of the day, Israel is the party with the power to stop this cycle, and that is where I think we should put our attention.
Hamas was literally formed as a reaction to Israeli war crimes against Palestinians in the 1980’s.
And of the two they’re the one that publicly showed a moderating trend, only to have their attempts rebuffed in the mid 2000’s.
They aren’t nice people but understanding how they got where they are clearly tells us to stop supporting Israel.
Thanks for the info I wanted to access the article but it’s blocked by a paywall/ email submission to view which I’m not too keen on doing. I know Israel had funded Hamas to maintain its own status quo many years ago but wasn’t privy to the possibility it may still be happening. Was wondering if you had any other sources on this?
They rounded up another 150 as they released those 150.
They actually have about 7,000 people in “administrative detention” which means people held without charges.
And remember boys and girls, this is not “hostage taking” because - as the simpleton useful idiots never cease to repeat - “it’s legal”.
(Thinking people might start pondering on which laws in their own supposedly Democratic countries are moral and which are nothing more than the hypocritical abuse of “justice” to cover up abuses of power)
And it’s not even “legal legal” either, it’s legal as in “Israel has control of the area because they won’t let the Palestinian Authority rule it on their own, thus they interpret legality as they see fit while outside of the Israeli legal code” legal.
People who say they violated the laws here, don’t understand what is mean to be apartheid state.
These state have laws and regulations that basically push groups of people until they leave the country or extents.
I would recommend reading more because any ruling party in your country can easily create laws to discriminate against a group of people that could be you.
Yup. I’ll put this here for those that need the explanation:
- Morals
- Ethics
- Laws
These often overlap but are fundamentally different things.
For instance, a country can be morally bankrupt, value a strong code of ethics, and have laws that have nothing to do with either.
Also, you often need to compare entire cultures before you can see problems with equivocating any of the three.
Yeah the stories, even from IDF veterans, are hair raising. Stuff like rousting Palestinian families every night. And any hint of aggression in response is heavily punished. There is no justice in this system.
What is your point? I’ve only seen people say that when they are denying the genocide commited by Israel. They are pushed out of their homeland and become citizens of Israel, trying to assimilate, it doesn’t mean their culture isn’t being destroyed.
I love how you linked to an anti-Palestinian subreddit that ran out of “unprovoked” stabbings for their little propaganda clip, so they just included two examples of Palestinians being hassled by Israelis for good measure (security guard and police respectively).
Meanwhile, the Israeli government themselves published a list of 300 people eligible for hostage exchange on which 80% were listed without charge or conviction.
And that’s not even touching upon the whole “administrative detention” nonsense, nor the physical, mental and sexual abuse of children in between torture.
So either you’re purposefully ignorant in pretending that all of the hostages are violent offenders, or you’re in favor of collective punishment.
The latter would be a rather untenable position, because that logic would mean you condone the hostage taking of Israeli civilians for the acts of their government (more so when you consider the conscription laws in Israel).
Yikes, I encourage everyone to read that Save the Children report linked. What’s really fucked up about that, besides to abuse obviously, is that Isreal is a democracy. With saudia arabia and china and whatever other countries with flagrant human rights abuses, you cut the citizens some slack because they’re living under varying degrees of dictatorship. But Isreal is a democracy, the citizens apparently fine with holding children in military black sites for throwing rocks, beating them, sexually abusing them, depriving them of food, water, and legal representation, throwing them in solitary confinement and so on. The Israeli people could stop this, but they choose not to.
Anyway, back to watching our “lessor evil” president write these monsters another giant check for precision guided hospital seekijg bombs. Hmm perhaps I answered my own complaint.
Roughly 80% of those on the list were not convicted of any crimes. They were either charged with crimes that had not yet been prosecuted, or were detained under a practice known as administrative detention, whereby Israel holds Palestinians in the occupied territories with no formal charges or evidence presented against them.
