Or maybe they will launch Win 12 with optional TPM support.
Imho making the OS(es) TPM only cannot be good for their business, many people are still on Win 10 with no intention to switch, since their motheboard does not support TPM and do not want to upgrade PC / waste PCI-E slot on TPM extension.
After using Windows for 30+ years now (since Windows 1), this is one of the straws finally pushing me into Linux.
I’m running 10, but without a TPM, can’t go to 11. So sad. Not.
Honestly 7 was the last decent OS they made. In my opinion the good OS’s were NT4 (game changer), 2000, XP, 7. They can keep the rest.
You can use the Rufus USB flashing tool with the Windows 11 iso and it will remove the TPM requirement and others.
Windows Update gets turned off yes.
But you wait say 6 months and then it back on, Do all updates and then run the playbook again (after it’s been hopefully updated)
Yea, 3.11 was a significant change. It was still just dos with a shell.
A usable shell, which was quite new for the time.
You mean 98se? 3.11 was more than a shell with all the updates. It had a 32bit preemptive subsystem.
95 was 3.11 with a good gui. At release there were better guis for 3.11 than 95’s like Pubtech and Norton Desktop.
All the current major distros of linux require TPM.
TPM prevents users from downloading random kinder eggs that install ransomware. Any business that disables TPM is crazy.
If I was not using my PC for gaming also, I would probably say fuck them and be on Linux too. But gaming on Linux is cancer.
Gaming on Windows just works, gaming on Linux can work but might be problematic with some hardware (as is the case with OP based on another comment they made), let’s not pretend it’s as easy.
you got a lot of hate because Lemmy tends to be militantly pro-Linux, (it sort of goes hand-in-hand with the FOSS ideas that Lemmy is built on) but every Linux user who built their own rig has wanted to throw their computer out the fucking window while trying to get nvidia drivers to work.
Linux gamers point to the Steam Deck as the example that gaming on Linux isn’t awful… The Steam Deck is an amazing advancement, but it’s essentially just a console like the Xbox or PlayStation; It’s using a known list of hardware, with pre-installed and pre-tested drivers. As far as play-testing and QA is concerned, that’s as close as you can get to having a controlled environment. For people who build their own computers, drivers on Linux are still a fucking nightmare. You still occasionally have to fight with them just to get modern games working.
It’s better than it used to be, for sure. But it’s nowhere near as easy as many people want to claim. Especially when compared to Windows, where it usually is just plug and play. Microsoft can suck a chode for their invasive and monopolistic practices, but those same practices are also what led to gaming being so fucking easy on Windows. You buy the game, you install the game, and the game boots up first try. Because companies test for Windows. They know what to expect from Windows. They know how hardware will perform on Windows, and what the potential pitfalls will be. None of that is true for Linux, where the OS varies just as much as the user’s hardware.
I do genuinely believe it will continue to get better. But people who go “lol gaming on Linux is ezpz” aren’t doing Linux any favors. Because if someone hears that, tries it, and finds out it isn’t easy? They’ll be much more inclined to just go “fuck it, I tried and it didn’t work so it must not be for me” and default back to Windows.
My AMD desktop provides an almost identical user experience to the deck, just with more power. The problem isn’t Linux, it’s Nvidia not making a driver that actually works. Nvidia has always been hostile to gaming on Linux, desktop Linux users in general.
You can install any OS on the deck, it’s commodity hardware shoved into a handheld. Not a locked down device like a console.
I’ve built all my desktops and none of them ran Linux poorly, played lots of games. I’ve been gaming on Linux since my only option was unreal tournament.
Anti cheat is a show stopper for many Linux games though, if you are big into multiplayer games you might be disappointed to find out your favorite game blocks Linux users because reasons. Games outside of steam will require more work to get running, because steam does the heavy lifting for you.
There are also other edge cases where it doesn’t work great, like with CAD software. But Nvidia making garbage tier drivers has done more harm to the perception of Linux gaming than everything else combined.
One thing that people seem to dismiss, running windows games on Linux is fuckin magic. It’s not normal for an OS to be able to run another systems applications.
Totally agreed. It was a chore setting up gpu switching in my Nvidia + AMD igpu laptop. There were times where a gold rated game didn’t work or was basically unplayable for me (Teardown, but it’s working now). Haven’t found a just werks autohotkey script (needed for Danganronpa, played on Win instead bc of it). Bluetooth connectivity has it’s quirks, etc. These small things add up, so yeah Linux still needs a lot of ironing for me to recommend it beyond web browsing.
In my personal experience, drivers and basically everything where more straight forward (I’m on an Nvidia card). Just boot and run with significantly better performance than windows. On my crappy laptop with only integrated GPU same thing. Maybe because I don’t play any anti cheat games. Also in the indie sector there is a bit more effort on proton compatibility, basically all I have tried just work.
It really all depends what we’re talking about when we say “gaming” tbh. Proton on Steam will run literally thousands of titles in one click, no configuration necessary, flawlessly. But thousands of titles isn’t all titles. If you’re a gamer who is happy to play what works and miss out on what doesn’t, there are enough games on Linux to keep you playing for a hundred lifetimes. But if you’ve got a specific competitive multiplayer game in mind that implements anti cheat, or you want to play all the biggest AAA releases as soon as they come out, you’re going to have a less positive experience.
And yeah, Nvidia on Linux can really suck, too. Anybody buying/building a rig with Linux in mind should steer well clear. If you’re talking about an existing machine with Nvidia then you might get lucky and have an easy straightforward time, or you might find yourself straight in at the deep end with a crash course of Linux sysadmin…
Even more fun when you need to do machine learning (for which linux is often the best or only option). Getting nvidia drivers to play nice is hard enough, try adding CUDA.
Saying gaming on Linux is caner is “hate”? Lol
Come on. Go look at forums, communities, etc and see how much effort people have to put in to Linux at times just to get sound working properly, and that’s before a game is even loaded.
Just look at comments here, with problems you never see on windows.
Linux still has these issues, though they’ve gotten tremendously better.
When’s the last time you loaded windows and sound didn’t work out of the gate?
Windows just works, that’s what OP is on about. He wants to play games, not play “what isn’t working in my OS now?”.
This is also part of what drives the console market - people just want to play their game.
The Linux community can be blind about these barriers for tee average user. Yea, you can lookup and learn commands, where stuff goes, etc. But by god is that a pain in the ass. You’ve gotta be sufficiently motivated about what your doing to want to get through that. And I say this as someone who had Unix classes a long time ago.
Do you only play Valorant and Rainbow 6 Siege? Most of my games work now by simply clicking Play, which wasn’t the case even 2 years ago.
There’s some bug between KDE, my Nvidia GPU, Prime, Proton and DXVK that causes my whole system to freeze (can’t even switch to console) if I try to play games with the GPU selection set to “on-demand”.
If I completely disable the Intel GPU, it runs fine, but that means I basically can’t use the laptop without a charger (because the battery drains so fast), unless I switch the GPU setting (requires a reboot) every time I want to game.
Not everyone wants to buy separate hardware for gaming, OP mentioned in another comment that Linux doesn’t play well with their laptop if they want to play games on it. It’s funny to see some of the Linux crowd being unable to admit that it just isn’t as plug and play as running Windows… Especially with an Nvidia GPU.
Dude just wants Microsoft-sempai to notice him. I don’t think reason or facts are very useful
Not so much anymore, it’s apparently improved significantly and getting better all the time. Check out linux_gaming. A lot of avid proponents there given the shitshow M$FT has made of Windows.
I have 300+ games in my Steam library, some of them with Linux builds, just a few. The rest work with Proton. I did not find a game yet that didn’t work on Linux…
I’ve found some and it sucks if the one game that doesn’t work well is one you play a lot. For me it’s Trackmania. It works some of the time but often breaks. It seems like the issue isn’t with the game itself but with Ubisoft Connect, which is pretty shit even on Windows. Very annoying.
I game on Linux and don’t even have Windows installed. If a game doesn’t work on Linux, it isn’t worth playing so I refund/don’t get it in the first place. I’m tired of getting fucked by Windows so I’m not going to use it. At this point I just don’t care about what doesn’t work on Linux, I’m better off using it than any of the other choices anyway.
Microsoft doesn’t care about you upgrading your personal computer. they care about business licenses. Enterprise pays the bills, and enterprise computers have all had TPM for ages. I don’t see any reason for them to make a change. consumers buying a new os for an existing computer is a drop in the bucket
Yeah, and then there are many enterprises that still use XP (edge case, but it may be well hundreds of thousands worldwide still) or Win 7 (possible millions of companies). It is not all smooth sailing in enterprise level either, many companies are upgrade averse, and if the stuff works, then why upgrade it.
Because it’s cheaper to sell them back then support all the bullshit and replace batteries every damn week whenever anybody complains about having a slow computer. As well as an easy way to manage money. You just lease the machines, send them off, and if there is a problem the vendor deals with shipping, troubleshooting, and all the labor managing an older device.
making the OS(es) TPM only cannot be good for their business, many people are still on Win 10 with no intention to switch
The switch from Win 10 to Win 11 costs nothing, so Microsoft doesn’t care at all whether you keep using 10 until your PC dies.
The next one you buy will come with 11 preinstalled.
Microsoft doesn’t care if you install Linux either.
You’ve already paid for the Windows license when you bought the PC.
But they can’t track you as much on windows 10, and almost not at all on linux
Telemetry data doesn’t make the CEO rich.
Microsoft makes their money from cloud services for businesses, the desktop OS is a loss leader that’s designed to get people to use the cloud services.
What cloud services, office? I find it hard to believe windows OS isn’t possible
I guess most people still access the internet. Websites track you no matter what OS you use.
This assumes you bought a pre-made machine. Building your own won’t have any OS you didn’t install yourself.
Why? What benefit would Microsoft have in changing the requirements for Windows 11 when Windows 12 will more than likely be the OS they focus most of their resources on?
The way Microsoft phrases it, it’s way more ubiquitous than you make it out:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/what-is-tpm-705f241d-025d-4470-80c5-4feeb24fa1ee
"TPM has been around for over 20 years, and has been part of PCs since around 2005. In 2016 TPM version 2.0 - the current version as of this writing - became standard in new PCs.
The odds are that your PC does already have TPM, and if it’s less than 5 years old you should have TPM 2.0.
To find out if your Windows 10 PC already has it go to Start > Settings > Update and Security > Windows Security > Device Security. If you have it, you’ll see a Security processor section on the screen."
So when they say:
“Important: Windows 11 requires TPM version 2.0.”
They’re requiring a standard established 7 years ago. Windows 11 launched in 2021, why WOULDN’T it require something from 2016?
You really want to run an OS from 2021 on hardware older than 2016? That’s not going to be a good idea, TPM or not.
Probably worth noting that TPM often needs to be enabled in the motherboard’s BIOS. It’s possible that OP has it already, but got the “you don’t have TPM” error when trying to upgrade to Win11, simply because it isn’t activated in their BIOS.
Also worth noting that people may have access to TPM through their CPU, notably AMD Rysens… And that some of those were plagued for a while with very bad performance issues when it was activated.
It’s supposed to be fixed now, but only if you got the right BIOS updates. Not sure myself, I kinda gave up on TPM and Windows 11 on my current hardware.
The way things are going, honestly my next PC will probably have TPM because it’ll have a newer motherboard, but I am not ruling out not having Windows on it.
Problem is, i havent enabled my TPM and don’t plan to, either.
TPM just gives your PC a non-spoofable fingerprint so Microsoft can always identify your PC. It’s simply a DRM-device built into your PC.
Your PC is already identifiable by the license key, the hardware installed, and you signing in with a Microsoft Account. If you’re that worried about gummint tracking or something, you shouldn’t even be gaming on your PC, as games and game stores have a lot of data to leak about you and what you’re doing on the PC.
Just because you haven’t enabled it doesn’t mean it’s not available. If you want a modern operating system, that’s the “you must be this tall to ride this ride.”
You mean a massively patched windows 2000 with modern OS? Does Linux count, or BSD? How about macOS?
You really want to run an OS from 2021 on hardware older than 2016? That’s not going to be a good idea, TPM or not.
Why?
10+ years of usage for a PC or laptop is completely normal outside the gamere/tech enthusiast bubble.
If you only use your PC for Amazon, Streaming and occasionally Word/Excel, a 10yo laptop is totally enough.
Because old hardware doesn’t keep up with new system specs. There’s only so much you can upgrade and replace.
Technically, yeah, I can run Mac OSX on my Rev. B Bondi Blue iMac. Should I? No. Not if I want a modicum of a usable device.
we still run win10 at the office on dual core wolfdale systems. they mostly now have 8gb ram and sata ssd. they run great. wolfdale launched in 2008, seven years before win10 was released.
i also have win11 set up on ivy bridge and haswell, that are also running very well. used daily for everything from basic office tasks, email with local multi-gigabyte mail stores, to video capture and editing. these are even older in relation to win11 than wolfdale is to win10.
the main issue is microsoft has unilaterally and arbitrarily decided that all these systems, all the way up to kaby lake (which was only discontinued by intel in 2020), which are usable by many, if not most, users for the tasks they perform are now ‘obsolete’… all in the name of profits for them and their oem partners.
It’s hard to avoid. People here just have been bitching about tpm because Linux distro maintainers don’t want to jump through hoops signing their shit. This problem doesn’t exist outside of Linux forums and people with absurdly old hardware.
Wrong. Linux has supported TPM2.0 for ages before even Windows and every distro maintainer would gladly sign their shit. The problem is that a shitload of hardware only accepts Microsoft TPM keys by default which can’t legally be used by Linux distributions, forcing the work onto the users. It’s pure vendor lock-in.
Also, this is going to be a way less of an issue when UKI’s become the standard.
As I recall it, and correct me if I am wrong; but Linux and Distros are given keys to use? So if they want to they can revoke those keys and you could only install a Windows operating system?
