I’ll try to make this as simple as possible:
If you would otherwise vote Democratic and fail to vote for Biden over stupid shit like this, you will be electing someone who openly admits to wanting a purge program here:
https://www.ft.com/content/9ec03cc8-afb0-4a06-9770-015e6f718bf7
Your choice is to vote for someone who supports Israel because he wants donations from the true believers, or through inaction, allow someone to get elected who actively says he will start rounding people up HERE. Immediately.
There is no choice. You don’t have to LIKE Biden. You don’t have to tell polls the truth about who you’re voting for. You don’t have to donate, and in fact I advise you do not and you tell the campaign exactly why.
But when it comes to the actual vote, no, you do not have a choice. It’s Biden or complete fucking anarchy.
Democracy is when you get to choose between voting for genocide and voting for fascism.
Democracy is when you get to choose between genocide over there OR genocide over there and right here too. Because you know damn well Trumps policy on Israel won’t be any different.
Sure it will. He’d have US jets running sorties on Palestinian civilians in addition to the aid so he could feel like a Big Boy.
Voting for fascism is also voting for genocide. You’re choices are a little genocide without fascism or a lot of genocide with fascism. I know what I’m choosing.
Clever, but wrong. You actually get to choose between:
- Continuing to give $600 million in annual aid to Gaza and diplomacy to try to get Israel to minimize civilian casualties while they understandably pursue Hamas terrorists, Or,
- Fascism and complete disregard for civilian casualties.
Perhaps neither is to your taste, but there are stark differences in the two positions.
Yes, I know, actual rational policy-making is so boring. It is much less satisfying than over-simplified, one-sided memes. But, you know, that’s what adults do. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
A lot of people also don’t understand that Biden is pleading to his donors. He doesn’t actually care what Israel does or doesn’t do.
“There is no choice.” “You do not have a choice.” Classic catchphrases of a healthy, functioning democracy
Shit take. Fascism is never out of the picture and spouting “vote blue no matter who” only pushes the window closer to it. You’ll just say the same thing in 4 years when it’s Trump again or one of his many soundalikes vs another genocidal Zionist wearing a D by their name. Engaging with the 2 party system validates it and it will never be “healthy.”
As this situation only applies to a small minority of voters, this is literally the definition of how democracy works.
Not sure what you mean, but it sounds like you just don’t care because it doesn’t affect your choice. I wonder how you will feel if one day your party’s candidate finally crosses your line
I think what you are saying is mostly true but also you do have a choice. If you can’t bring yourself to vote for Biden because of well founded reasons I don’t think it’s fair to judge because of that. All the centrists start screaming and losing their minds that they are going to lose because their candidate sucks and blame it on people who have specific, previously vocalized reasons for not wanting to vote for said candidate.
You aren’t the problem if you don’t want to vote for Biden because of his unwavering support for genocide. Yes the alternative is worse, but election after election you can’t just keep handing centrists your vote who don’t give a shit about you or your policies (and actively shit on you while loudly posturing that they aren’t like you at all). At some point you have to make the threat of withholding your vote a real one, there are always consequences to that especially for this election but at the same time nothing is really going to change if we keep handing centrist corporate democrats the reigns to power because this time is an emergency too (just like last time).
I recommend voting for Biden for similar reasons you brought up, but I also don’t think there is any shame to deciding you can’t bring yourself to vote for such a trash candidate and want to choose this election so support a third party. Bad timing? Yeah, but it isn’t the voters fault for not wanting to vote for someone that doesn’t represent them?
Yes the alternative is worse, but election after election you can’t just keep handing centrists your vote who don’t give a shit about you or your policies (and actively shit on you while loudly posturing that they aren’t like you at all). At some point you have to make the threat of withholding your vote a real one, there are always consequences to that especially for this election but at the same time nothing is really going to change if we keep handing centrist corporate democrats the reigns to power because this time is an emergency too (just like last time).
Here’s where you’re missing something fundamental. You’re taking as a given that a protest vote will meaningfully register with the Democratic Party, and they’ll chase you around to get your vote back. I’d offer that a significant reason major US parties have drifted rightward over the past 40 years is this. Conservatives skew older. Leftists skew younger. Young people simply don’t vote. Ergo conservatives have an outsized voice in the political sphere. When more leftists disengage, the conservative voice grows louder.
If you protest vote the Democratic Party, you’re just proving to them that they can’t count on your vote. If they can’t count on your vote, they have the option of scrambling to try to figure out what you want, or chasing voters whose support they can count on, and based on recent history that’ll probably result in more of a shift to the right. Because, at the end of the day, right-leaning voters have a weird fervor that leftists don’t share, and leftists disengage at the drop of a hat. If we’re being honest, that’s not a great group of people to have on your team if you’re trying to sustain political relevance.
I don’t think this sentiment is about protest. It’s about conscious. Many cannot consciously vote for a Zionist president complicit with genocide. Many may change their minds, it’s a year away, but many won’t. We can selfishly brow-beat them into voting for Biden. But in the end, it’s their choice.
What an inspiring message. Biden will win for sure if we all make just one lecturing, patronizing post each day. Bonus points if you can find someone who had family killed in Gaza! They need the most reminding that Trump is the real threat.
The people making these comments act like there’s literally nobody else in the democrat party.
The people making these comments act like there’s literally nobody else in the democrat party.
This. Give us another choice in the same party to vote for.
Bonus points if you can find someone who had family killed in Gaza!
I’d love to hear from this mythical voting bloc that keeps coming up.
Check in Michigan. Their votes actually matter and they have a whole Palestinian-American congresswoman.
Sadly, I don’t live in a swing state so it doesn’t matter who I vote for. My vote, whether it be for Biden or a third party, is effectively a protest vote against the state’s electors voting for Trump. I can vote, not vote, vote for a third party; it really doesn’t matter.
Really? The first thing you do when seeing this is tell people to vote for Genocide Joe instead of saying “actually let’s try to get a third party going”.
"No guys we have to vote for Hitler, Stalin is way worse! ".
Then there is no democracy.
A vote for Biden is a vote for Genocide.
A vote for Trump is a vote for Genocide.
There’s a whole Wikipedia page of dominant parties that reigned supreme as a duopoly in this country until a third party came along and dethroned them. What you just said shows a shocking ignorance of history. Vote whig.
Third parties are fairytale nonsense. We fix the Democratic party, or we fail.
There is nothing too fix. It’s rotten from the top and it won’t allow anything to rise which isn’t under its control.
You cannot fix a rotten organization by joining it. You have to create a new one.
You will never get a 3rd party going. Perot had the best chance in '92 and only ensured Clinton got elected.
Not proud. I voted for Perot. I was dumb and young. He had charts and graphs.
If you coerce/force someone to vote the way you want them to, then can you truly say we live in a free country?
There’s nothing stopping the Democrats from putting someone else up to run against Trump.
And don’t say no one else can be Trump, there’s a whole year still, and it’s going to be the undecided Centrists who decide who wins in any case, so you just need to put someone up that appeals to them mostly.
America isn’t that free of a country. Democrats were always going to run their incumbent. The time to choose a left wing candidate was the 2020 primary, which is why I was devastated when Biden won. I knew we would be stuck with him for 8 fucking years. The left didn’t turn out enough in that primary, and the establishment went with one of the worst choices.
The fact that there isn’t some popular Democratic alternative at this point means it will not happen. Biden has been the most left wing president in over half a century, and none of his shitty decisions have been due to his age. Organize with the DSA or promote left wing Democrats if you’re fed up with the establishment. Recognize that becoming cynically apathetic makes you a pathetic asshole, not a person who’s better than those that try.
It’s not centrists who decide elections by choosing a candidate, it’s the people fed up with the system who decide elections by choosing whether or not to show up for the vote.
It’s not centrists who decide elections by choosing a candidate, it’s the people fed up with the system who decide elections by choosing whether or not to show up for the vote.
Well I speaking towards from the pool of people who actually show up to vote, decide the vote. Not the no shows.
These days the two sides are ‘baked in’, so it’s going to be the undecided middle that decides.
I’m assuming that if the Democrats choose somebody else besides Biden, that the younger voters have more of a chance of showing up to vote, than with Biden.
Nobody is going to tell the sitting president not to run again, that’s a decision he needs to come to all on his own, and if he doesn’t, the DNC will not oppose him.
Nobody is going to tell the sitting president not to run again
Actually if the warning signs were dire enough, the inner democratic party elites would push hard for it. Some are saying that the Cali Gov is already running a stealth run, being ready to jump in if Biden exits.
You could join a party and vote in the primaries. It’s about the only way to make a change now it seems.
Complete anarchy, because as much as Trump WANTS to be a fascist, his first term proves he’s not actually any good at much of anything.
The opposition to Trump’s fancy private police force in their black uniforms and snazzy gold trim, will result in the US becoming a failed state, and, yes, complete anarchy.
Fascism is, by definition, a right wing ideology. Biden literally cannot be a fascist, he’s not even authoritarian. If he were we would have already had universal health care and student debt relief by now.
or how about we overthrow our shit govt instead of participating in this fucking circus act year after year. also this isnt stupid shit its a genocide you daft cunt
fuck the usa fuck israel
Oh here we go. I’ll condense my thoughts down into a fun, fully animated, 20 second video.
If your apathy opens the door to a Republican supermajority in your state legislature, then they can more easily a) strip rights from your friends and neighbors, b) assist in the ratification of amendments and calling of Constitutional Conventions, c) gerrymander away your power to influence Congress, d) remove your city’s ability to govern itself, among others. Down-ballot races can potentially affect all of us.
Except in actuality where with the electoral college in play, states that have as few electors as Rhode Island have a smaller number of EC votes than every margin of victory in the modern history of presidential elections. You could axe any one state with that few number of electors and you wouldn’t change a presidential result of the last century or more.
you will be electing someone who openly admits to wanting a purge program here:
Understood. You’re okay with that stuff happening in Palestine, but not the USA, because you live in the USA. Supporting tyranny abroad is a-okay because you don’t think it affects you.
“Who cares if we allow genocide to happen here because it’s already happening somewhere else” is such a fucking stupid take. You should feel bad.
There’s no way you could honestly interpret what I wrote that way. I’m responding to the fans of Joe who are openly saying “Who cares about genocide when Trump is worse?”
I do care about genocide, and that’s (one of many reasons) why I’ll be voting for Jill Stein, not Joe Biden.
I don’t want to sound like I’m defending Biden, but I don’t know why people find this surprising. I’ve only been paying attention to politics for about 30 years, but he’s been saying this loudly and proudly for as long as I can remember.
Maybe people are just now noticing because it suddenly matters more than it used to. It definitely hits different when Israel is actively attempting a genocide, and it feels to me to be in pretty fucking terrible taste to beat that particular drum right now, but people are acting like this just came out of left field. He has been absolutely consistent about calling himself a Zionist for decades. It really shouldn’t have come as a shock.
Maybe people didn’t realize he’s a Catholic? Or thought that meant something other than implicit commitment to Zionism? Seems kind of hard to believe tbh
I have no idea what the dude is smoking. The Catholic church is explicitly against zionism. They wanted Jerusalem to be an international city.
Pope Pius X stated "We cannot prevent the Jews from going to Jerusalem—but we could never sanction it. The soil of Jerusalem, if it was not always sacred, has been sanctified by the life of Jesus Christ. As the head of the Church I cannot tell you anything different.
Because belief in the biblical end of times requires it of those who believe in it.
The Catholic church are not the only christian church guilty of this, but they do believe it. The papacy did for a time reject it, politically, but that was a short lived period in the church.
Now, the most influential Catholic in the free world (maybe besides the Pope, if you’re a Catholic) is pro Zionism.
I’m not American, can someone explain why Biden does this when his “one job” for 2024 is to not look like a fash?
Because old fucks in politics can’t keep their goddamn mouths shut about anything. Gotta pander, but unfortunately there a lot more cameras and microphones at everything they attend, unlike when they were my age.
Can we just pull the reset rope on government and replace all positions with people that represent the average demographic age that will actually see the future we’re building? I honestly do not care what some 80 year old thinks society should be like. When they were my age, black people were still not allowed in schools with them.
He’s been saying it for decades (literally), it’s only now that it garners so much attention. Look, I can find 100 reasons to dislike the guy but being consistent isn’t one of them.
80s documentation: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2020-12-28/ty-article/rare-1986-document-reveals-bidens-views-on-israel-and-saudi-arabia/0000017f-f2ca-d8a1-a5ff-f2ca769b0000
I’m not American, can someone explain why Biden does this when his “one job” for 2024 is to not look like a fash?
Is it though? Americans do not really care about foreigners getting killed. A lot are actually in favor of Israel killing people and/or Muslims being killed in general. It’s not a given he will lose more votes than he will gain from ‘moderate’ Republicans. After all Democrat voters will be whipped into line with the ‘but Trump/lesser evil’ argument. This’ sub’s mod has smeared himself up in shit and is going hard at it.
Because the vast majority of Americans believe that a state of Israel has the right to exist in some fashion, which is all that Zionism means.
It does not mean wholehearted support for literally everything its government does, which Biden very much does not have. He and Netanyahu are not exactly friends.
Because the vast majority of Americans believe that a state of Israel has the right to exist in some fashion, which is all that Zionism means.
I hate elections because it makes me feel even more like a weirdo, and that I have far, far less in common with my neighbors than I think.
That you and the other comment about this are massively downvoted despite being accurate really shows how Lemmy is changing.
I get it, they may not like what the truth stands for or that there’s nuance here, with POTUS recent words and actions setting a poor standard. The whole situation certainly sucks but so does the knee-jerk reactions on many of these threads.
And? You’re a mouth piece for the president?
A president of all people should understand what words mean given context (quite lacking in the U.S right now). It’s quite bold of you to give excuses on behalf of someone who says they are a zionist without even knowing if they were ignorant or deliberately trying to dogwhistle. You might come off as daft if you’re proven wrong.
Because saying you are a Zionist is simply to say that you believe that the state of Israel has a right to exist and be secure. It’s not saying that Israeli policy towards Palestian’s isn’t a inhumane cluster-fuck.
I disagree that a religious ethno-state has a right to exist. I’m anti-zionist for the same reason I don’t like the regimes in charge in places like Iran and Saudi Arabia.
Thank you. The anti semitism on here is actually terrifying. Either there are a lot of people who don’t realize what they are saying, or they truly are anti semites just waiting to come out of the closet.
Luckily, they are not the majority in the real world. It seems to be highschool and university students who do not understand the implications of what they are saying.
Opposing apartheid in any context is not antisemitic. Conflating criticism of oppression and occupation as condemning an entire religion is extremely obtuse. Surely you’re not that fucking dense.
Throwing an Election (Any%)
Not the best choice of words from Joe.
He’s old, and in his youth saying that made politicians more popular, not less.
