At some point in the last two years I completely stopped using Google search in browser and just use Google maps to find businesses or ddg for searches. Actual Google search just has too many sponsored or promotional links
I just searched local restaurants near me and tried to sort by distance and the first option was 800 miles away, the second was 600 miles away. It’s not just Google search getting worse.
Was over for me when I opt out out of some of their data tracking shit and they started captcha’ing me everytime I browsed there. Like wtf Google what are you anymore? Sounds dumb but them changing the banner every week was the start of the end.
Here’s the thing, Google has changed. Over time, they’ve restructured themselves, initially purposefully, but now they’re facing the consequences of that.
Google genuinely does still have amazing programmers and engineers.
The trouble is that their expertise is in crafting systems that harvest personal information; expertise in other areas has been left to rot because there’s no point in improving them.
Gmail is already entrenched, as is search, YouTube, maps, android, etc.
They aren’t going to attract a significant amount more customers, so their main avenue for continued growth has been to become better at harvesting and processing data.
For a while that was fine, but now that this expertise has been lost, Google can’t make good products. They don’t have the ability to do so, it’s not that they don’t want people to use their software and think “wow this is actually pretty great”, it’s that they genuinely can’t do it anymore. Not unless the product you want is a telemetry system, in which case I doubt you’ll find anybody that can do such a stellar job.
It’s a part of why Google starts then kills so many projects. They want to expand to collect more data, but they don’t have the ability to create good services anymore, so it just ends up being an advanced data collector with a sub-par app/website on top of it. The company just isn’t structured to make things in any other way.
Pretty soon the internet will be almost completely ruined. Within a few years. AI bots will have spammed everything. Searches and web pages will be entirely faked bs. Reddit and Lemmy will have enough ai Bots commenting and pushing agendas/products that no one will have a clue who’s a real person. Information that’s true will be almost impossible to verify online.
In short, if you think the web has gotten bad now, you ain’t seen nothin yet.
I agree with the sentiment, but lack of AI has not stopped SEO hacking in the past. Sure it will help them go farther, but there are already tons of garbage websites hacking the top 1-5 results of any search
In the past I remember it made using search engines less rewarding than using web directories, web rings, asking people on forums etc. That was slower, but gave you results (and acquaintances). While using search meant looking through dozens of pages of search results, mainly SEO.
I am more optimistic on that one. AI provides a pretty clear way out of this, since it allows you to automatically detect the bullshit. Meaning either the bullshit has to raise so much in quality that it is indistinguishable from good content, in which case it would not be bullshit anymore, or it will get filtered. AI can also transform bad websites into good ones, like a super-powered ReaderMode, AdBlock and more all rolled into one, so a lot of the “lets plaster everything with ads” will lose effectiveness.
The problem over the last decade was that Google completely lost interest in being a search engine, they are just an ad company and as long as search leads you to more ads, they are quite happy. So the user experience went down the toilet.
The real problem with AI is that it will remove the incentive for the authors. Content producers want to get paid, with AI you can just extract the information from an article without ever viewing the article or the ads around it.
They have already been trying to use ai to combat and identify ai in college and highschool papers. So far it’s been severely ineffective. AI has gotten pretty good at writing out a sentence or two that looks like it’s real. If ai improves enough I doubt they’ll be much of a way to identify it all.
I think it’s just a new world for spam.
At some point, probably soon, AI content will generate so much data it becomes untenable to store all the scraped data.
We’ll also reach a point where it becomes much more costly to parse the data for AI spam+trustworthiness+topics. If you need LLMs just to filter spam, that is a large step up in costs and infrastructure vs current methods.
When that happens what happens to search? The quality will have to degrade or the margins will drop off sharply.
“Notably, Google, Bing, and DuckDuckGo all have the same problems, and in many cases, Google performed better than Bing and DuckDuckGo by the researchers’ measures.”
Click bait headline. I see they’re good at SEO themselves.
Yeah, DDG skips all the sponsored links but I generally find what I’m looking for faster on Google if I just skip half the page rather than trying to find the right incantation to bring up what I’m looking for on DDG.
I’ve tried, many times over the years, to use DDG and you are 100% spot-on. I find it damn-near impossible to find what I need without some deep voodoo magic to somehow craft the perfect query. It’s been a decade+ since I’ve gone to page 2 of a Google search. Using DDG I can be 3 or 4 pages deep before maybe finding the answer. There is SOOO much irrelevant stuff to filter through.
It sucks, I don’t want to use Google, but there doesn’t seem to be a great alternative.
just use a !g if you don’t get what you want the first time on ddg and you’ll still get a proxied google search result.
Would you be able to give an example of what you couldn’t find with DDG that was simpler to find with the help of Google? Sounds interesting to me, as I use DDG pretty much exclusively.
I don’t remember the specific case, most of the things I Google are local businesses. I find for local businesses Google is a top tier resource. Google can tell me how busy a business is right now, or if they’re closed because of the weather. I often have to do some digging to find the business’ page on DDG, if they have one. If I’m looking for a local contractor, like a water heater or drywall repair guy, the ads aren’t even that intrusive, they’re literally what I’m looking for. On DDG, I’ve got to do some clicking to find a contractor and then all the reviews are on Yelp. General contractors will have a list sometimes on DDG, but it’s not all that helpful, I’ve never seen a phone number without clicking once or twice.
I honestly think there’s something wrong with Google’s individual customization. They’re leaning in a little too hard on things you’re likely to be searching for rather than what you’re actually searching for.
DDG gives me better results for random searches on things I’m not usually looking for. When I was looking for Godot exercises yesterday every hit on DuckDuckGo for ages was just exactly what I wanted. When I went over to search Google there was a lot of more varied topics. Now, hands down if I need what time a certain store closes at a certain location Google will give me exactly what I’m looking for. Likewise if I need to know what’s near something else Google is absolutely superior to DDG. Google’s image search is also far more accurate and useful.
But then I come back and look for a medical condition for my cat that I’ve never heard of before, You passed by the sponsors and they’ve got a couple of random pages about it maybe a Reddit article or two that’s now blocked, but it quickly devolves to adjacent searches.
But if I go and search for any of my usual suspects, The rankings come back pretty decent.
Yeah, the paper shows a startling lead for Google, more than I would have expected.
I try to swap to DDG every so often (usually once a year, giving it about a month), but every time search ends up being frustrating enough so I don’t stick around. Nevermind their boneheaded decision of using Apple Maps over something that actually wants to be useful like OpenStreetMap. But what I didn’t expect was just how big the difference between the two is when analyzed, damn.
This is what happens when everyone does ‘SEO,’
It really seems like nowadays that internet search is just people trying to game the system for clicks. But it has made everything superficial and fake. Not to mention, utterly useless.
I don’t know what the solution is really. It’s easy to say ‘dont do SEO’ but people will just find some way to game that system too. It was great when Reddit wasn’t complete shit, because the subreddits dedicated to a particular topic had great insights into whatever topic you wanted to know about. But now that it’s a cesspool, and Lemmy is tiny in comparison, id say get used to the Internet being like this for a while.
IMO It’s not just optimization or monetization. It’s the abandonment of the open internet (blogs, forums, etc) in favor of walled garden apps that are closed off and operate like a black box. SEO itself is just metadata and helps find things during search nothing malicious about it, but the problem is due to web abandonment, the things there are to find are so low effort you stick to big tent apps like reddit instead of sifting through blog spam
Especially if you somehow tryout some popular program, for example wordpress. The most search results are just different best of xy plugins lists. Even if you search for issues. Its like you are suddenly in a whole different bubble of the internet and everything is broken.
Lemmy is tiny in comparison
Try asking Lemmy a question. I was fiddling with FF earlier and thought “I wonder what the best FF addons are atm”. Instead of Googling and getting a bunch of 3-10yo irrelevant blog posts I just posted in Ask Lemmy for peoples opinions. Lemmy may be small, but people like helping. Not only do you get your answer but you help Lemmy grow!
It’s a cliche but it’s perfect right now - Lemmy is at the perfect moment for you to “be the change you want to see in the world”
What I find is that Google is now still better for what I usually search (a mix of programming, gaming and random factoids) compared to Bing or DDG, but no longer by such a wide margin as it used to.
Best as I can tell, it’s because in the past Google constantly tweaked the parameters of their scrapers and models, in turn leading to SEO constantly having to re- and re-optimize, and making it difficult to artificially push your spam and crap content high. They must have stopped doing this, leading to this steady rise of generated spammy content, and now Google feels a lot like other search engines in that i have to very actively discard 80%+ of the results including the whole first page.
(edit)
I recommend reading the actual paper. Interesting though Google has gotten worse, it’s results are still massively superior to the competition. 9% spam compared to 31% for DDG and 23% for Bing. Damn. That’s still a huge difference, shit as nearly-10%-spam is. I would however say its increased percentage of social media results (11% vs 6% respectively 5%) is bad, but eh, I guess there are users to genuinely want to see those results. 🤷
No but it’s my gut feeling, and it matches with the temporal progress in the paper. Cannot truly know of course, but it’s what I would suspect.
The converse is that SEO spam has become better at the game than google, despite google’s best efforts. It’s a less comfortable thought because how could a bunch of unorganized distributed actors out compete the one of the world’s richest company at their bread and butter game. The alternative is that one of the world’s richest companies gave up playing their bread and butter game.
Per your edit, there might be a blind spot in the study. Consider when you’ve searched for a recipe, and the top result you find always starts with "My cousins showed up one day and I had to scramble to make something . . . ". A big story you don’t care about before you can get to what you want. That’s happening because Google is giving those kind of recipe posts a higher rank. Ironically, adding this human story to the post is there for the sake of robots, not people.
I wouldn’t classify posts like that as spam, exactly. I still find the recipe I want. But they do make the experience worse.
Amazon’s no longer any good at shipping, and Google’s no longer any good at searching. What a terrible year to be a tech nerd.
Amazon’s not good at shipping?
I don’t like a lot of their business practices, but holy shit do they get stuff to my house fast and reliably. Most of the time, same or next day.
I think the key is not good at shipping compared to themselves in the past. Same with Google.
They’re still better than the alternatives, but they’ve gotten much worse in quality all around, and they squeezed out competitors years ago so there’s no viable alternatives that aren’t WAY worse.
It’s anecdotal, but for me they’ve been better than ever over the last year.
Agreed about the competitor issue, although I don’t recall any competitor who was even close or looked like on the path to become close.
I tried ordering something from Newegg the other day just to avoid using Amazon. I didn’t need it right away, but then saw ETA was 2 weeks. From Amazon it was next-day (so I could do the thing I wanted to do that weekend). Cancelled the Newegg order.
I don’t know how we get a viable competitor on that front, but damn, there is no one that seems close on the logistical front.
I’m hoping some antitrust effort will lead to Amazon being forced to open up its warehouses/shipping to other retailers, I guess.
Nah last several times I ordered, I saw one date expected before I order. The next day the expected date changes and it takes a week to turn up. They’ve been trash for a while.
That’s because of their contracts with couriers which is undermining employee and road safety
don’t forget about every single device collecting as much information as possible.
