What the hell is the argument for immunity? Even if presidents can’t be charged for doing their job, stealing an election and walking away with nuclear secrets is not part of the job.
What the hell is the argument for immunity?
It’s the well-established “throw shit at wall, hope it sticks” principle of legal argumentation.
The argument is that it’s hurting Trump’s feelings and that’s why he should be able to do whatever he wants without question.
The dumbass interpretation of “Separation of powers” means that the judiciary doesn’t have jurisdiction over any executive branch official, for anything, ever. Corollaries being that congress can’t pass laws that apply to judges, and the Department of Justice can’t investigate Congresspeople. Instead of checks-and-balances, they want independent kingdoms.
I need you to be conscious of the fact that the people floating this argument know that it’s bullshit. They’d never accept the idea that Joe Biden can’t be bound by laws passed by Congress or rulings made by the judiciary, even though that’s exactly what they’re arguing. It’s just that the DoJ is saying “Trump broke the law and needs to be punished like anyone else would” and even the GOP doesn’t think they can convince us that the things we all watched happen on TV didn’t happen. They tried floating the idea that Jan 6 wasn’t actually an attempt to stop Joe Biden taking power and it didn’t stick. They tried saying that Trump didn’t incite it, but he clearly and obviously did right in front of us. Now they’re trying “okay, it happened and Trump incited it but it’s not illegal” but realistically they just need to be able to say something, even if they’re bullshitting, we know they’re bullshitting, and they know we know they’re bullshitting, because we can prove it to be false but there’s no way to prove that they don’t believe it. The card says “moops”, and that gives them enough cover to delay, obstruct, exhaust every avenue of appeal and generally keep the ball in the air as long as they can and hope for a miracle. The most likely miracle being that Trump wins the election, gets to be president and pardon himself of everything, thus rendering this all moot until his attempts to pardon himself get to the Supreme Court that he paid for. They will then rule that the Constitution doesn’t say he can’t declare himself above the law and the US will have a permanent one-party government.
They’re also likely even just OK with keeping the ball up until after the primaries, when they can make a NEW argument about prosecuting a presidential candidate, about how it’s tantamount to creating a one-party state or something.
the argument is the fucking moron’s understanding of the president (that the president can do whatever whenever and no one can do anything about it). I had that same understanding of the president up until maybe the 2nd grade.
and that’s the point of how batshit bonkers this theory was. 77 year old trump was forcing his lawyers (because I cannot in good conscience believe that lawyers who have not committed sanctionable offenses actually believe this) to advance a theory about the office of the presidency that your average 10 year old could easily dismiss (just noting I wasn’t 10 in the 2nd grade but I was in the smart kid classes, so I’m giving average kids another 2 years).
the really over the top stupid side point of this argument is that the republican party is trying to impeach the current president for actions they say he made during(? after? do they even know?) the time he was vice president and none of them, the elected ones at least, are saying anything about trump which shows how ethereal at best that argument is.
Excerpt:
For the purpose of this criminal case, former President Trump has become citizen Trump, with all of the defenses of any other criminal defendant. But any executive immunity that may have protected him while he served as President no longer protects him against this prosecution.
Well worth skimming the ruling if you ask me. And up vote parent comment for visibility please.
Also:
In relevant part, the district court rejected Trump’s claim of executive immunity from criminal prosecution, holding that “[f]ormer Presidents enjoy no special conditions on their federal criminal liability.” United States v. Trump, — F. Supp. 3d —, 2023 WL 8359833, at *3 (D.D.C. Dec. 1, 2023). It concluded that “[t]he Constitution’s text, structure, and history do not support” the existence of such an immunity, id., and that it “would betray the public interest” to grant a former President “a categorical exemption from criminal liability” for allegedly “attempting to usurp the reins of government.” Id. at *12.
Finally…
as the Supreme Court has unequivocally explained:
“No man in this country is so high that he is above the law. No officer of the law may set that law at defiance with impunity. All the officers of the government, from the highest to the lowest, are creatures of the law and are bound to obey it. It is the only supreme power in our system of government, and every man who by accepting office participates in its functions is only the more strongly bound to submit to that supremacy, and to observe the limitations which it imposes upon the exercise of the authority which it gives.”
That’s all well and good but he’s being prosecuted for something that he did while he was still president
And, as the ruling states, the president isn’t immune to all prosecution.
He’s being prosecuted for doing something illegal (allegedly) that wasn’t part of his official duties as President.
So, you’re saying you think it should be legal for Biden to shoot you in the face?
Thanks!
Who might analyze this at length, any YouTubers or podcasters? I’m thinking Leonard French or The Weeds…
Legal Eagle has been doing some good commentary videos on the slew of Trump legal stuff.
To think. A bunch of people who despised the king sat down and created the presidency as an act of defiance to monarch rule. You want us to believe that they intended the president to have powers only a king possesses. Get the fuck out.
Careful, the “Original Intent” line of logic leads to Originalism and you could end up on SCOTUS!
The poor liberal judges on the court who have to show up to work knowing their contemporaries are corrupt sleaze bags.
There is nothing wrong with originalism as long as it is not selectively employed. If there is legislation that is behind the times it shouldn’t be the court deciding how the law should be written.
The problem with a lot of originalist shit is that the people talking about it just selectively apply it where they want. The supreme court will happily apply common law right up until you point out judges in it being tried for corruption. Then suddenly their wars turn off and judicial immunity has just existed forever.
There was never a possibility it would rule any other way. Now we just gotta wait for the inevitable stupid appeal to SCOTUS, and have it done with.
Now we just gotta wait for the inevitable stupid appeal to SCOTUS, and have it done with.
I believe he can request an en banc hearing (a hearing in front of all the circuit judges, as opposed to a three-judge panel), which he definitely will, because it will delay the proceedings further.
The three judge panel anticipated that these arguments are primarily delay tactics. They have said in the decision they will stay their ruling only for an appeal accepted directly to the supreme court. If he appeals to the en banc panel first, then the trial can go ahead while that appeal plays out, so it can’t be used as a delay tactic. Only the Supreme Court can delay it further now.
I assume that certain elements on the Supreme Court will attempt to delay it (Thomas, Alito, and probably Gorsuch, I’m looking at you). How much can they realistically delay the trial?
He can request it, but the good thing about those is the appeals court can deny the request. He can appeal to the Supreme Court and they could either deny it or take it up to smack down the argument. If they side with his argument the country is over (along with all of the court’s own power) as they would have ruled that the President is functionally an absolute monarch.
Hey everybody! Guess what it’s time for?
I seriously need to save this image so I don’t have to download it each time.
What you say is rational and is something I should do. And yet…
(Actually, I just bookmarked it.)
That image shows up as a lemmy.world URL for me. Does Lemmy cache images somehow?
I would love to have Lemmy host a copy of a Biden “I Did That!” Sticker for every time we hear about the economy doing better.
