It was a love story and it was touching. I had to look away during the intimate scenes as watching two guys making out gives me the heebie jeebies.
You are what’s wrong with “progressive” or “left” or lgbt friendly circles. Fuck your judgement, you pathetic asshole. Public displays of affection give MANY people the heebie jeebies, regardless of gender, you judgemental prick.
A love story without affection sounds hollow. The original comment specifically singled out an expression of affection displayed by gay characters in a romance story, they did not say in their original comment that public affection in general is what bothers them. That led me to believe they have some homophobic feelings in their original comment, which is where my response came from. With either original intention, be it a distaste for love stories or homophobic origins, you’re quite aggressively upset. I suggest maybe you don’t watch love stories if you don’t like public displays of affection, just a thought.
Yeah, watching anyone making out gives me heebie jeebies but I still stare at them to assert dominance
As a good exercise for personal growth, you should ask yourself why seeing that gives you the heebie-jeebies.
Eh, I think it’s pretty clear that some amount of homophobia is innate as much as homosexuality is. Some people just plain find it gross. As long as they respect everyone’s right to have their own lifestyle, that’s really what tolerance and getting along is all about. We can’t except everyone to like everything, so we should be proud when they put up with harmless things they don’t like.
I wouldn’t say innate, that makes it sound like humans are born homophobes.
Unavoidable when you’re raised in a homophobic society and something to improve.
I don’t disagree and I’m not trying to shame or put anyone down, my point is just that it’s productive and enlightening to learn these things about ourselves when we can. For me at least, it helps me improve in areas I find myself lacking, and meet other people where they are when they see things differently than I do.
I’m sorry you’re getting downvoted. You’re allowed to like things and dislike things, as long as tolerance and respect are given for others’ choices. It seems like you’re doing that here.
Acceptance for something you like and enjoy is pretty easy and natural. It’s a bit harder, and takes more thought and courage, to show respect and tolerance for things you don’t like and don’t enjoy, but you accept them anyway because it’s the right thing to do and it’s a part of being a human on this planet with billions of other humans. Grow up, lemmy.
I originally had it downvoted, but you’re right, they aren’t being directly disrespectful. Besides, saying it was a touching love story first and foremost is evidence enough that OP isn’t an asshole, just a human with human opinions. I apologize, and have rescinded my previous judgement.
That being said… Getting the “heebie jeebies” from watching 2 dudes kiss is a red flag that OP has some deep rooted homophobic views/tendencies, which is absolutely something they need to address in their own time. Maybe not here, on the internet, in front of several thousand schmucks making dick jokes; but if that’s how it has to be in order to bring OPs attention to it, then so be it.
I’m all for having your own opinions, but if a same sex couple being romantic grosses you out while a heterosexual couple doesn’t, that feels like something you should do some soul searching over lol. OP might be a great person irl, but I do think it’s important to recognize your own shortcomings and address them where possible. God knows we all have enough of em
I originally had it downvoted, but you’re right, they aren’t being directly disrespectful. Besides, saying it was a touching love story first and foremost is evidence enough that OP isn’t an asshole, just a human with human opinions. I apologize, and have rescinded my previous judgement.
That is awesome, and so rare in online discourse. I really appreciate that.
I’m all for having your own opinions, but if a same sex couple being romantic grosses you out while a heterosexual couple doesn’t, that feels like something you should do some soul searching over lol. OP might be a great person irl, but I do think it’s important to recognize your own shortcomings and address them where possible.
You kind of lose me here. I think it’s not my place to judge someone whether they like or don’t like observing homosexuality. If they’re respectful, and show tolerance and acceptance, then whether they like it is not really my concern. It’s certainly not my place to judge whether they have ‘soul searching’ to do. I agree that saying it gives them the “heebie jeebies” isn’t the most respectful way to say they don’t care for it, but on the scale of ways to put that, it’s way, way down towards the harmless end. In my opinion it certainly wasn’t egregious enough to warrant the absolute avalanche of downvotes and judgement that person was getting.
You’re already showing incredible empathy and the ability to be self-reflecting. I encourage you to stop judging others for saying they don’t like the things you think they should like. Instead, we should hold each other to the standard that we are respectful and tolerant of others whether we like what they’re saying and doing or not. Unless, of course, that tolerance is of those who express intolerance, but then we’re squarely in Paradox of Tolerance territory and that’s a whole other thing.
Very well said, I agree.
OP was being honest without being derogatory. It sounds like perhaps they may have experienced some personal growth from watching the episode.
If OP hasn’t been around gay people who openly express physical affection, they may have felt initially uncomfortable. But that’s why representation is important.
That’s why movies, TV, books, and visual arts are so important to us as a culture and as individuals; exposure to new ideas helps us grow and become better people.
Honestly, thanks for still watching it anyway. Don’t know why you are getting downvoted. If it was a touching love story about morbidly obese people, I would get the same heebie jeebies.
You are part of the change that needs to happen in the world, we can’t help what makes us feel queasy, but you both respecting their performance, the story AND your own sensibilities IS how we achieve progress.
Proud of you, no sarcasm.
I loved the episode but it is very much a gay story
Do you also refer to romantic stories between man and a woman (traditionally referred to as “love stories”) as “heterosexual stories”?
It’s okay to clarify and specify when something is gay.
Its clearly its own sub genre, Netflix has specific categories for it and Asian culture has an acronym (BL for boy love). Many people prefer it over the rest, even without being gay themselves.
Acknowledging a difference isn’t necessarily an insult.
[Insert County ]love story
A teen love story
A divorcee love story
Yes. We do this for all types of shit all the time. Just because you put gay in front of it doesn’t make you homophobic.
So a post-apocalyptic love story? Cuz that seemed to be the main theme. Unless you were just too caught up over the characters being gay to notice.
Nowhere in the original comment did they say it is a gay love story.
Full disclosure: I’d probably call it a gay love story before encountering this post. But there is fair point in the title of the post - why do we need to differentiate love stories based on what sexuality are the protagonists? And if we do that, why not do the same if protagonists are heterosexual? Then the classifications you mention would have to go like:
[Insert country] gay love story
A teen hetero story.
A divorce bi story.
The sexuality really should be secundary classificator.
If I were asked to qualify one, sure. It’s a love story about a gay couple. It’s a gay love story. If they were Indonesian it would be an Indonesian love story.
If the sexual orientation and origin of the characters don’t make a difference in the story, why do you feel the need to qualify it anything but a love story? Because doing it honestly makes you look like a bigot…
The story isn’t about them being gay. Its about them being in love and dealing with the post apocalyptic bullshit along with their relationship. To call it a “gay story” is to single out the one tiny part of it that is them being gay and reduce the whole thing to that. I doubt you’d just classify Schindlers list as a “Jew story” or Black panther as a “Black story”. I do like how you slipped from it being a “gay story” to a “gay love story” tho, nice save. The quote was about people calling it a gay story, not a gay love story. I think even subconsciously you understand that “gay story” is not really a good way to summarize that story.
In no world is somebody asking for more detail on a story going to want to hear “its a gay story” and be satisfied. If they want details you’d tell them more, and if they didn’t a more accurate summary would be “love story” or even “post apocalyptic gay love story” but just “gay story” is like calling lord of the rings a “travel diary”
Exactly. Just like that classic 1970 film staring Ryan O’Neal and Ali McGraw: Straight White American Love Story
And yet in the original comment you never said it would be a gay love story. You just said gay story.
But let me rephrase that then - would you call a love story between a heterosexual man and a woman a “hetero love story”?
The “gay” in “gay love story” is a secondary classificator - it’s a love story of two people who happen to be gay. A “gay story” could be a love story, but could also be a story of someone finding their identity, about their struggles in the world as a gay person etc.
Gay guy here. It was a gay story and I don’t get the pearl clutching on calling it what it was. Getting that much representation on such a show was amazing, but saying it wasn’t a gay story is like saying Cinderella was not a straight story.
Keyboard warriors, Am I right?
The point is that nobody calls Cinderella a straight story. Yes, it was great representation and the reason it was great was because it wasn’t cliché or leaning into stereotypes for characterisation.
It was certainly a gay story, but it was first and foremost a love story. The only people who would choose to name it a gay story first and foremost are saying so to minimize it or demean it.
You can be technically correct and still call it wrong.
I disagree.
The characters involved happen to be gay, but there’s nothing in the scenarios that are exclusive to gay couples. The same messages can be taken from it even if they were a hetero couple.
there’s nothing in the scenarios that are exclusive to gay couples.
There definitely are. Before the collapse of society, these two characters would not have been allowed to marry in the place where they live. It was only after societal collapse that they were free to be their true selves without discrimination or government oversight to tell them that their love was wrong.
It would not be the same story if it was a hetero couple, and it is dismissive to the unique challenges faced by gay people to suggest it would be.
Before the collapse of society, these two characters would not have been allowed to marry in the place where they live. It was only after societal collapse that they were free to be their true selves without discrimination or government oversight to tell them that their love was wrong.
Before the societal collapse, these people were early teenagers infants, if that. They never lived an adult life under such a regime, and have just as much an understanding about life in such a regime as hetero couples that did live under it: they probably heard about it, and know that on paper it was bad, but they never had to live it.
Ellie is 14 when we first meet her, some 6 months 20 years after the collapse. She has zero understanding of what it was like to live under the pre-infection government.
Edit: initially got the time jump wrong. It’s 20 years not 6 months
Does it really matter though? Because from what I watched that episode was what someone would do for love. And to be honest, I don’t think it would’ve had as big as an impact with a hetero couple.
Hetero couples do have the added difficulty of scoring contraceptives in a post apocalyptic world though.
And gay people are safer without enemas and douches? Nevermind hiv treatments?
I loved that episode and I love Offermans pov about it!! Do I like this episode as part of Last of Us? No, I was expecting something different from this series. More action and adventure, less emotional trauma and humanity.
I think the show is trying too hard to lean into the emotional side of the apocalyptic scenario, and I think the TV scene is already saturated with kind of stuff. I wanted something which would be more focused on the main characters, their experience, and the action and adventure as captured in the game.
Should there be more stories about gay love in different scenarios? Yes. Is it okay that this story showed up under this context? Definitely, overall it’s a great story and I am better off for having experienced it. Do I like it as part of Last of Us? No, my expectations were different. I would say the same if the love story was between a heterosexual couple.
Edit: that said, given the bias and discrimination against LGBTQ+ folk, I am not surprised that writers (who are often overwhelmingly empathetic) choose to add such stories in their work
Do I like this episode as part of Last of Us? No, I was expecting something different from this series. More action and adventure, less emotional trauma and humanity.
Hmm, for me that’s a strange take from someone who played the games. The heart of the Last of Us always was about tragedy and how humanity handles such a catastrophe. Action and adventure in the games was mostly there to not loose interest as a gamer between the story. That’s just how these two different medium work. Obviously a live action series can’t work on the same formula to keep it’s audience engaged. That’s one reason why there wasn’t that much zombie action since too much of it will get old pretty quickly and the writers didn’t wrote a brainless zombie action adventure but a human drama tale.
Offerman is becoming more and more a chad in my eyes and that love story was really really good and its coming from someone who really hates comedy and romance genre but gotta say it was really good.
Read his books, but only if you’re a lefty. I showed my boomer parents and they hated it.
I’ve listened to Paddle Your Own Canoe on audiobook (he narrates). Dunno about the rest, but I’d agree based on that one. He makes it clear pretty quickly that Ron Swanson was just a character and his views are different and more nuanced.
When did “a Chad” become a positive term? From my experince growing up it was a mid-west term for rich city kids, and then later on the internet it became a red piller/incel term for “Alpha male”.
Is this one of those “taking it back” and owning it things to take power away from red pillers & incels?
Nick Offerman:
I’ve enjoyed the hell out of his content. I loved it when Adam Savage This Old House did a shop tour with him. I’ve also listened to his Twain’s Feast audiobook and enjoyed the hell out of that. The historical journey through American regional cuisine was amazing. And how much we’ve actually lost is even more amazing.
When did “a Chad” become a positive term? From my experince growing up it was a mid-west term for rich city kids, and then later on the internet it became a red piller/incel term for “Alpha male”.
I think it’s just more ironic than “taking it back”. I don’t think anyone worth respecting would call themselves “a Chad”.
So in context for this, a dude doubling down on his gay love story is certainly not what an incel would attribute to “a Chad”, but the rest of us could look at Nick Offerman and say “damn, I respect the hell out of that guy, what a Chad”.
I know he’s liberal in real life, but the way he plays Ron in parks and rec is how I wish conservatives actually were in real life.
It was my favorite episode. It was a beautiful story.