The article: “a bunch of us are worried about the potential rise of fascism in the United States, so we’re moving to Italy”
Tell me that you are oblivious to international politics without literally telling me that you are oblivious to international politics.
More to the point, if Americans were the type to “flee in droves,” left-wingers would have left states like Texas and Florida en-masse for bluer pastures. Moving within the United States is a million times easier than moving overseas, and if they’re not doing the former in the face of fascism/degradation of human rights in red states, why on earth would they engage in the much more difficult latter? Definitely sounds like a case of taking anecdote and non-committal musings online too seriously.
Many people are doing that. And republicans are migrating in the opposite direction, too.
The problem is most people can’t just up and leave.its expensive, we have to line up jobs, housing, etc; and many people don’t want to leave family and friends.
I dunno, something feels different this time. One of my co workers just asked for advice on what country to move to if Trump is re elected.
The reason I think it’s different this time is because this is the same co worker that used to make fun of me for thinking that Trump’s second term will usher in America’s first dictatorship. It ain’t funny now.
My friend and I moved to Germany last year. We met some Americans from st. Louis who moved the year before.
It’s anecdotal but not unreasonable to imagine some amount of brain drain is happening because of the instability in the US driven by late stage capitalism.
At one point my German husband was looking into becoming a US citizen, but just never got around to it. I stopped encouraging it years ago, because Germany has weird laws about dual citizenship and he would likely have to give his up to become a US citizen. As a result, we have a European exit plan. While I’d really like the US to get it’s shit together, knowing we have options is nice.
You no longer have to give up citizenship to be a German citizen, and the US doesn’t require that either. A new law passed this year and comes into effect sometime around April I believe (still new to the exact legislation process in this country).
But yes, I would not encourage anyone to move to the US at this time. They are the largest proponent of late stage capitalism and those policies bring instability to the worker classes which begets authoritarianism. That’s rarely a good thing for anyone.
I’m in Texas. I know less than a dozen Republicans and maybe 3 of them are Trumpsters. I voted in the Republican primary and, while researching candidates and propositions, i was shocked at how horrible they all are!!! I was trying to choose the least crazy candidates and they’re weren’t any!
the republicans i know think that people are fleeing blue states to red states because of politics. the reality is that nobody is going anywhere.
The overwhelming majority of people die within like 20 miles of their birthplace.
Even traveling. I forget the stat I heard years ago but iirc it was a majority of people hadn’t even travelled outside of that. Which I get to some extent since most people live in cities, but having been raised in the middle of nowhere misery it’s necessary to travel more than 20 miles just to get to a damn grocery store. Once I had a car myself I was road tripping constantly
Ehh. People are moving to places that are cheaper. Look at Texas. Low taxes and cheap real estate compared to any blue state big city.
Climate comparable to Cali or CO. So if u sold a Cali house Texas is your best bet to replicate that u had or better for less money.
Those cheap states are cheaper cuz they’re corrupt shitholes.
Uh, no.
No state income tax, but those morons tax you for home ownership far more than some states. Electricity is more exp, even housing isn’t as cheap as it was 5 years ago. I paid more in property taxes in Texas than I pay here for property and state income on a house worth 3x what I had in Texass.
And where the hell in Texass are you saying has comparable weather with Colorado? Maybe south Colorado, or close to Kansas. But as a whole, texass weather has no match to anything as nice as Colorado weather.
Now the, that place is run by a corrupt bunch of fucktards.
As someone who spent 20 years living in foreign countries, there is a political distance when you’re somewhere else. US politics are happening on a different part of the globe, and it takes a long time to really understand local politics. I’m leaving soon, but that’s happening whatever the outcome of the election as it was already planned.
Fleeing to where? If Americans are worried about the rise of fascism at home, I have bad news about the rest of the world. There are no greener pastures. The countries with better quality of life than the U.S. have very strict immigration laws. The U.S. is already the country you go to when yours sucks, no other democratic country has immigration policy as liberal. Trying to flee is circling the drain.
Maybe instead of trying to run away from problems, vote in the upcoming election and just prevent Trump’s dictatorship!
I hear you and we are voting. That said, backup plans are a thing for good reasons.
My wife is Jewish and something she once said to me lives rent free in my brain. “The gross majority of the Jews you know are descended from people who left when they had a feeling. The ones who waited until it was obviously bad did not make it out.”
Fascism is on the rise globally, but not every country will be led by someone who has actively courted neo-Nazis as part of their base. I saw how emboldened those people felt during his first term, and we anticipate it could only get much worse during a second. We do not want to leave, but we fear that staying may become unsafe for our family.
Me over here emigrating to a Scandinavian country. My family thought she was with me to get an anchor baby here in the us, little did they know it was I who was trying to sneak across borders.
100%. The Conservative party is currently leading polls here in Canada because of the unpopularity of Justin Trudeau.
The Conservative party are also conspiracy-loving, reality-denying loonies like the Republicans, but since “we’re Canada”, and “it can’t happen here”, they’ll probably form the government next year.
The one upside of trump beating a deeply unpopular Biden would be it might give JT the impetus to acknowledge reality and move on.
Stop. I see your thinly veiled disinformation intention. Biden is not unpopular “deeply” enough for Trump to beat him.
The grass is not greener on the other side. The grass is greener where you water it.
I moved to the Netherlands ages ago. It suits me very well, but many Americans would hate it. Rather than try to convince 300 million people that the Dutch way of life is better, I think it’s okay to just live here instead.
There are lots of things that would bother many Americans. Taxes are high (top tax bracket is 50% or so, and that starts pretty low, plus 21% sales tax), salaries are less. Gas is expensive, people in cities don’t have cars, and most outline of cities have one car per home. Houses are small, shops close early.
The cultural differences run deeper. The primary goal of Dutch civilization is a word that they claim is untranslatable, gezelligheid, which roughly means “cosiness”, but extends to many things that you wouldn’t apply “cosy” to, like a gezellig party, a gezellig walk with friends, a gezellig meal. Success is admired, but you are expected not to show off. Working part-time is normal… 80% of women work part time… and losing the extra income is considered completely worthwhile. Religion is common but being irreligious is much more common; not atheist, as much as just not caring at all about religion.
Nobody has credit card debt. The only thing Dutch people buy on credit is their home.
The Dutch have a reputation for being tolerant, but the culture is actually deeply sexist and racism abounds. An anti-Muslim politician just won our recent national election, and right wing parties did well: the fascist wave washing over the West had washed over the Netherlands too.
In 24 years here I’ve never met a single Dutch person with a gun, except for police. Police in Holland are restrained by laws - a policeman in Rotterdam panicked and fired at a car who ran from a traffic stop and is facing charges, even though nobody was injured. People don’t fear cops, although they are still tools of state power.
The high taxes do provide a security net, although unemployment is lower than in the USA, and people don’t stay unemployed for long. A lot of Dutch people suffer burnout, which is recognised as a medical condition, and basically get paid to not work for a while until they recover. We’ve had a pro-business government for over a decade so our health care is privatized, which is why it is one of the most expensive in the world. Everyone gets medical care though.
You have to register with the government to tell them where you live. The upside is that they just mail you a ballot to vote, since they know where you live. There are no voting computers, because activists showed that they can be hacked.
People put out flags when their kids graduate high school and on the king’s birthday. Having a flag any other time would be a bit weird.
Dutch don’t eat out or order food much. Traditional Dutch food is objectively terrible. Luckily modern Dutch food is delicious. Meat alternatives are cheaper than meat, although milk is still cheaper than fake milk.
I could go on, but I’ll leave it there!
And this time, they may actually follow through.
Fucking lol no they won’t.
Moving abroad is insanely expensive, getting citizenship in another country is insanely difficult, and most people don’t have the skills that other countries would want, nor the resources necessary to make the move. The amount of people who have the resources to do it and the willingness to follow through wouldn’t qualify as so much as a rounding error, let alone enough to get anyone to take notice.
Regardless of what your opinion is on our immigration laws (legal or otherwise), our laws are basically an open-borders policy when compared to every other country on the planet with similar economic prosperity. People act like you can just pack up and move to Canada or something on a whim over the weekend. Not gonna happen.
My Aunt said she’d leave if Trump was elected. Within the year she had sold her working farm and bed and breakfast and moved to Costa Rica with her husband.
Most people can’t afford to do that,or still have kids at home or whatever. And I honestly don’t like her or my uncle that much, but I was so proud of them that they did that. They had the resources, so they just did it.
Most people don’t have that freedom. But those who do should put their money where their mouth is.
I can’t help but notice that all the rich conservative shits all want to move to Costa Rica. It’s like a trend started by Rush Limbaugh. Your aunt moved to the one place where there would be more trumpism, not less.
Maybe we can take more of them in Canada instead of from places that commit international assassinations
Yes, America.
Famously not prone to the assassination of political enemies.
Definitely no racial component to your complaint either.
While I agree with your overall point, if you think the US is “easy” to move to, you’re deluded. It’s far easier to move to the UK, Germany, France, Canada, Australia, and many other countries.
As a software engineer that works for a US company, with 15 years of experience, I can work pretty much wherever I want, except America.
The reason your immigration is so lop-sided is because your visa system is a joke. Many of your visas are taken by chop-shops that exploit foreign labour through low wages and threat of deportation. A sane president would make a more granular system that allows easy movement for people from “welcome” countries, while denying visas to specific sectors/countries that manipulate the system.
We have a housing shortage in Australia, but besides that, we’d love to welcome a lot of you here. Its slightly more sane at least.
I’m not leaving. It’s tempting, but at this point, I’m committed to staying and fighting for all of the people who don’t have the privilege to move. And the kids who are too young to vote but deserve to know there are adults on their side who won’t abandon it. I don’t begrudge anyone who moves, especially if it’s a safety issue, but I just can’t.
Heard that over the past like 8 elections.
