491 points

So… Doing your job well is “quiet quitting” now? I don’t want my boss to think I’m quiet quitting, I Guess I’ll have to underperform instead.

Quiet firing on the other hand is giving raises that are under inflation. Companies should stop this quiet firing shit.

permalink
report
reply
111 points

Giving raises? My employer quiet quit that more than a decade ago. Meanwhile inflation and price gouging march on.

permalink
report
parent
reply
16 points

What proportion of people have jumped ship in the last ~8 years as a result? (Understand you could have good reason for sticking around.)

permalink
report
parent
reply
10 points

It’s a very small company. About 1/3 have moved on. The attraction is that it’s relatively accommodating for other things in your life.

permalink
report
parent
reply
1 point
Deleted by creator
permalink
report
parent
reply
68 points

I fail to see how we are responsible for the emotional well being of our management. Did I do my job? Yep! Did I do it well? Yep! Stand and deliver thy raise O manager, or face the wrath of my competing job offer.

permalink
report
parent
reply
31 points

News organizations have employees as well. It doesn’t surprise me that they are in on the gaslighting.

permalink
report
parent
reply
10 points

If they don’t play ball, you think they’ll keep their job?

permalink
report
parent
reply
6 points
*

I am not placing blame, just observing that News Companies still have staff and could be on the side of the Capitalists when it comes to worker rights.

Edit: I think I understand. I agree, not all staff writers (or any?) could be in a position to refuse the editor when they say “write me a piece on quiet quitting”.

permalink
report
parent
reply
1 point

I think they mean the orgs, not the employees.

permalink
report
parent
reply
11 points

this. every so often someone posts an article on how wages are beating inflation and im like. where? who? this is not my experience.

permalink
report
parent
reply
12 points

If you want an inflation beating raise, you need to get a new job. Companies have long since stopped caring about employee retention.

permalink
report
parent
reply
4 points

Probably if you take an average and include the multimillionaires getting bigger raises.

permalink
report
parent
reply
8 points

I’ve taken a pay cut two years in a row for that reason. Last year was somewhat understandable with the insane inflation but this year kind of stung

permalink
report
parent
reply
11 points

How is taking a pay cut when there’s massive inflation even remotely understandable? Inflation means that they need to pay you more, not less; your costs are rising.

permalink
report
parent
reply
6 points

Businesses don’t care about your costs. They care about paying as little as possible for as good a quality as they can.

Same way you don’t care if your grocery store mega chain got hacked and lost $300 million, that’s not your problem, if they raise the price of bread you’ll go somewhere else.

permalink
report
parent
reply
-3 points

I mean it’s understandable that they didn’t give everyone 6.5% raises. That’s a pretty huge raise

permalink
report
parent
reply
9 points

Find another job. You’ll quickly find out if you are worth the raise you wanted. My bet is you are.

permalink
report
parent
reply
9 points

I’ve got my feelers out there but I’m gonna stick it out here for another year - currently working on a certification to switch to a higher-paid position and the company is paying for it

permalink
report
parent
reply
4 points

I can’t wait until AI hits these middle managers that were just enough good at their jobs to earn a promotion and now spend their days sending angry emails to the people that actually do the work, while collecting more income than the workers… 🖕

permalink
report
parent
reply
2 points

AI’s can do their job right now. Haven’t you ever seen an AI not work right?

(Most managers suck, I like mine right now, and it’s odd. He’s stuck in meetings all day so I’m not. )

permalink
report
parent
reply
3 points

“Quiet quitting” is a bullshit term meaning to do your job but nothing above or beyond that. Joshua Fluke has done multiple videos on this BS, and at this point there are plenty of other idiotic terms thrown around to try and make workers look bad.

permalink
report
parent
reply
3 points

stop this

Bosses everywhere: taking notes “no… more… raises.” sets down the notepad “see, now they are speaking my language!”

permalink
report
parent
reply
-11 points
*

It was always a stupid fucking term that equates doing a job with quitting.

Not increasing pay isn’t quit firing, because there is no firing. It is just businesses being stingy.

Edit: Guess I wasn’t clear enough that I am responding to the general statement that not giving raises is constructive dismissal, and didn’t add a footnote that not giving raises to specific people could be part of constructive dismissal. Nuance is hard.

permalink
report
parent
reply
31 points

Not increasing pay isn’t quit firing, because there is no firing. It is just businesses being stingy.

it’s constructive dismissal.

permalink
report
parent
reply
9 points
*

I feel like meeting that to a legal level is a stretch. Minor cost of living raises that don’t meet inflation doesn’t rise to that level in my uneducated understanding

permalink
report
parent
reply
9 points

Only if it targets specific employees with the goal of getting them to quit. If the business doesn’t give raises in general they are just being cheap.

permalink
report
parent
reply
14 points

Not increasing pay with inflation is a pay cut because your pay is literally worth less without it.

In a sane world, if the fed is dictating the money supply, with their actions directly impacting inflation, every workers pay should be indexed to inflation. Same goes for taxation, welfare payments, etc. Companies raise their prices regardless.

permalink
report
parent
reply
4 points

I agree it’s a dumb term, so I made up my own dumb term. (At least I think I made it up)

Employees are allowed to be just as stingy as businesses.

permalink
report
parent
reply
-44 points

Quiet quitting is the practice of meeting minimum expectations with low moral or engagement. Underperforming could lead to termination for not meeting minimum expectations.

permalink
report
parent
reply
98 points

Woosh.

Also quiet quitting isn’t anything except a bullshit term dreamed up by capitalist crybabies.

permalink
report
parent
reply
-21 points

More like inexperienced middle-management. Discussing the team member’s reasons for disengagement could lead to a solution for them, or even multiple team members. Saying “I have nothing to complain about” proves ineffective leadership looking for cause to terminate.

permalink
report
parent
reply
26 points

The issue many people have is how some bosses redefine underperforming as “not doing enough unpaid overtime”.

permalink
report
parent
reply
9 points
*

Well that’s completely fucked. I don’t work for free. That’s also illegal.

permalink
report
parent
reply
24 points

Then just make the minimum 30 pieces of flair 🙄

permalink
report
parent
reply
-57 points

Quiet quitting: doing what you’re paid for

Normal working: doing what you’re paid for but also asking managers for more work when you’re done -> that’s what’s expected from management and also takes some load off their shoulders, they love that

Over achievement: doing what you’re paid for and more without asking management -> management will promise you a seat at the table of you continue doing that long enough!

If there’s advancement opportunities try to do the second one until you reach a point where you’re happy and then do the first one :)

permalink
report
parent
reply
56 points

Hahaha someone’s living in fairy land.

permalink
report
parent
reply
46 points

If they deep throat the boot hard enough, maybe they’ll get to wear it someday!

permalink
report
parent
reply
-5 points
*

I’m a skeptic when it comes to lots of things where the common man is getting fucked.

May I ask y’all how highly-paid individuals in high positions came to be that way?

Are they ALL the results of nepotistic practices, ALL inheritors of wealth? Or 80% got there that way?

(In the SF Bay Area, certainly seems I know high performers who work their asses off, make shit tons of money, get promotions before jumping ship to other companies, work at startups that get acquired…)

Disclaimer: not endorsing neglecting your family or personal life for a pipe dream of prosperity, just sharing one perspective

Edit: I forgot, the argument could easily be “the vast majority of high earners got there by job hopping”!

permalink
report
parent
reply
-10 points
*

If you don’t have any advancement opportunities where you’re working change job or work your wage. Same if you don’t want to move up, work your wage.

I don’t know why you guys don’t get it…

permalink
report
parent
reply
25 points

Tell me you’re 14 and have never worked a day in your life without telling me you’re 14 and have never worked a day in your life.

permalink
report
parent
reply
-2 points

Gonna have to add a couple of decades to that number buddy.

permalink
report
parent
reply
18 points

This person is a manager

permalink
report
parent
reply
-10 points
*

Not a manager, just someone who did exactly what I said, worked a bit harder for a year and a half, moved two steps up the ladder and now sitting cozy doing exactly what I’m paid for and nothing more as I don’t want to move any higher because it would mean being in a position of authority.

Do you really think I would tell you to aim to reach a point where you’re happy and then start to work your wage if I was a manager?

permalink
report
parent
reply
8 points

Or crawl so far up management’s ass while throwing all your coworkers under the bus. THAT is how you get ahead. Stepping on your coworkers.

permalink
report
parent
reply
1 point

I actually got promoted because I was the guy helping everyone do their job…

permalink
report
parent
reply
1 point
*

I actually thought you were joking until the last sentence

Get off your knees, you slave

permalink
report
parent
reply
1 point

“you slave”

He said to the guy telling others to reach the point where they’re happy with what they’re doing and to then work their wage and nothing more.

If I was on my knees in front of management I would be telling everyone to just keep working harder forever, not to stop doing it once they don’t have or want advancement opportunities.

permalink
report
parent
reply
280 points

I had an employee review with my manager this week, at my request. She told me she wasn’t comfortable uptraining me right now even though they badly need the help in the position I asked to be crosstrained for, because they’d rather hire someone just for the role; but we could talk about it again in two months. After a little digging, I found that (A) they can’t afford to lose me from my lower-paid role and (2) they know I’m looking for another job and don’t want to train me until I demonstrate I’m planning to stay.

My response is that (A) well you’re definitely gonna lose me now and (2) I’m definitely no longer willing to stay.

permalink
report
reply
44 points

Similar situation on my end awhile back. Location had begun losing people. I was in a bottom rung management position, more title than authority, and the team knew it. However, I was also the only manager willing to be consistently on later shifts. Due to pretty intense compartmentalization issues were often isolated and fixed by managers within each department. Except later on at night I was alone with a smaller team. This presented a bit of a situation:

  1. If a problem came up I was expected to text or call a manager. As you can imagine, they did not often reply or pick up.

  2. Many problems require rather immediate solutions.

  3. I wasn’t being trained to receive the skills necessary to deal with many situations so I began enabling key members of the evening team and standing in front of them if mistakes were made, acting as a wall.

  4. Due to all of this, and a lot of work being handled by a smaller team, (and some issues going consistently ignored by senior management) we saw several people leave. In the middle of all this I was isolated and made out to be the reason for some systemic issues, told I could no longer take the initiative to help, and the team caught wind.

Eventually I began looking for other jobs. When I let my bosses know boy were they surprised. By the time I left one manager had claimed to have started having anxiety attacks during their shift, the whole unreachable during situations thing became a problem for upper, and well…long story short shit and fan began to meet.

permalink
report
parent
reply
33 points
  1. If a problem came up I was expected to text or call a manager. As you can imagine, they did not often reply or pick up.

  2. Many problems require rather immediate solutions.

These are not your problems. If management has enacted a procedure that doesn’t work, don’t change it or you will be blamed for any failure.

Send a few emails to document your opinion that there are problems. Otherwise, do exactly what was recommended. You want the policy to fail. Don’t try to improve it without management support.

permalink
report
parent
reply
31 points

I learned this in my previous job. We were a city-owned theater, which came with all of the trappings of government bureaucracy. But we were also open after hours, and did a lot of technical work for our shows. The city’s IT would log off on Friday at 5pm, and not log back in again until 8am on Monday. We were one of the few departments that was open over the weekend and after hours, (often until 1 or 2am when loading shows out.)

So naturally, we butted heads with IT a lot. Because we didn’t have access to change things we often needed to change. Whenever we needed to urgently troubleshoot something before a show started, our hands were almost always tied by IT. And IT’s given solution was always the same. Submit a ticket, and we’ll get to it when we get to it. But when you have 2000 people waiting on a show to start at 7pm on a Saturday, you can’t wait for IT to get back into the office on Monday.

Historically, the solution was to use our own gear. Every technician had their own personal laptop, so they could use that instead of the city laptop. But this caused issues of its own, because we couldn’t connect to any of the city-controlled gear as the city network was MAC filtered, (and IT obviously wasn’t going to allow our personal devices to connect to their network.) We worked with what we had, worked around problems we couldn’t fix, and it was a lot of extra stress for no extra benefit; The higher-ups didn’t see a problem because the shows were never visibly impacted. And IT didn’t see a problem, because the higher-ups weren’t complaining.

Eventually, we just started letting it burn. Shows suddenly started 15 to 30 minutes late, (which was unheard of in a building where even 2 minutes late was considered unacceptable.) Clients didn’t get equipment they had paid for, because it was broken on Friday evening and we couldn’t troubleshoot it over the weekend. Projectors didn’t have video feeds, because techs stopped using their personal laptops for shows. Et cetera, et cetera. Instead, the techs simply started noting every time they wanted to fix something but couldn’t because their hands were tied.

And wouldn’t you know it, the system got fixed. IT was suddenly required to keep someone on call for weekend tickets. Because when people stop propping up the broken system, all of the flaws get discovered and heads roll until shit gets fixed.

permalink
report
parent
reply
24 points

I remember doing self assessments before reviews, I just gave myself 5s because they were going to change everything to 3.5 anyhow unless you invented cold fusion and sucked everyone’s dick

permalink
report
parent
reply
18 points

Well, Mr Chalupapocalypse, your breakthrough on cold fusion is really profitable for the company, but the VP of marketing was disappointed you didn’t cup his balls during last week’s blowjob session, so…best we can do is a 3.9

permalink
report
parent
reply
11 points

Woah check out this guy’s resume

permalink
report
parent
reply
15 points

Nice, how did you do your digging? Some key relationships in the company?

permalink
report
parent
reply
14 points

I asked questions during the review. My.manager was evasive but it wasn’t hard to put together. In the restaurant industry, everyone is hiring right now as they expand for patio season. That won’t be the case as much in two months and we both know it; if I’m going to leave it’ll likely be in the next two weeks.

permalink
report
parent
reply
9 points

Hope you secure something likely to be slightly or WAY better soon buddy 🔥

permalink
report
parent
reply
15 points

(A)

(2)

I do this shit all the time haha

permalink
report
parent
reply
8 points

To be fair (2) is kinda understandable, but this has to be the most incompetent management ever.

permalink
report
parent
reply
27 points

Nope. Just standard corporate management.

permalink
report
parent
reply
19 points

If they communicated better, and offered the training/position/salary increase as incentive to stay, that would (imo) be a better course of action. This just feels rude and incompetent

permalink
report
parent
reply
9 points

Well I mean I am awful with people, but this problem even I could solve. They had about 3 possible holes to fit the peg through, but no, they just threw the toybox out of the window.

MAYBE OP is just awful at their job. But if they wanted to keep him where he was, that makes little sense.

permalink
report
parent
reply
2 points

She’s thoroughly mid. She has strengths but connecting with her supervisees is not one of them. I’ve had worse.

permalink
report
parent
reply
7 points

Somewhat related, advice about being irreplaceable is bad for this exact reason. The more replaceable you are, the easier to promote you and take longer vacations. Sure you might be able to get fired more easily, but most managers won’t put forth the effort.

permalink
report
parent
reply
8 points

Not trying to be an asshole, but this is privilege in action. For low paying jobs, managers will fire you at the drop of a hat. Jobs that pay better are more secure.

permalink
report
parent
reply
2 points

At this point, you don’t fucking care. Go to their manager and tell them about it.

permalink
report
parent
reply
1 point

Saving that for my exit interview.

permalink
report
parent
reply
175 points

Doing your job at a high standard is a problem? Who makes this garbage up?

permalink
report
reply
61 points

It’s companies gaslighting us that we are either looking for new roles, or we are working hard to make more money/ask for a raise or else we’ll find a new role.

Managers see both these things as “not being part of the fam”, but really they just want to take more and give less while playing the victim.

permalink
report
parent
reply
40 points

Yeah I always thought ‘quiet quitters’ referred to people checking out of their jobs emotionally and doing just barely enough to not get fired, so actually underperforming, not because they couldn’t do better but because they stopped caring at some point. In that sense they have already quit, quietly. But now it seems that anyone who doesn’t go above and beyond can be a ‘quiet quitter’? Doesn’t make much sense to me.

permalink
report
parent
reply
29 points

Nah, quit quitting is just the new term for it. Boomers called it working to the letter of your contract. Quit quitting isn’t doing less than your job duties. It’s simply refusing to bend over backwards and give your employer all of your free time. You don’t take on extra responsibility. You don’t come in early or stay late. You come in on time, do your exact job duties as written, then you go home.

But this terrifies employers, who have historically relied on manipulation and coercion to get employees to work beyond the scope of what they were hired for. So they’ve started calling it “quit quitting” in an effort to rebrand it as something negative.

permalink
report
parent
reply
11 points

They’re just toeing the line for their corporate masters. Capitalists want 150% effort for 100% pay since the profit margin on that extra 50% alone is huge.

permalink
report
parent
reply
5 points

I’ve known people who are the best workers on their team, but put in like 40% effort. Does that count as quiet quitting? IDK.

To be clear, I’m not excusing the article, which is a bad joke. That being said, there are plenty of people out there that are really good at their jobs, but don’t put in full effort. I don’t have a problem with these people at all (really who does 100% effort all of the time?).

permalink
report
parent
reply
4 points

really who does 100% effort all of the time?

Idiots

permalink
report
parent
reply
11 points

They don’t just want your work output; they want your soul.

They want the old days where people were 100% believers in their jobs at places like WeWork, Uber, Tesla, and Facebook…before the general public became disillusioned with tech companies specifically and companies in general more broadly. They want “evangelists” and the belief of the mid-Obama years back…

The only problem is that many have looked at things over the last ten years and found that the euphoric promises made by the management of companies were lies.

permalink
report
parent
reply
8 points

Because people cannot like you and you still feel obligated to earn your paycheck and you have honor. Unlike the dip shits you are quitting from because they are drunken assholes that can’t see past their whiney little emergencies.

permalink
report
parent
reply
-1 points

I think it is meant as satire

permalink
report
parent
reply
7 points

Neither the site nor the author point to any of this being satire, unfortunately.

They’re just that much detached from reality.

permalink
report
parent
reply
1 point

You are right, I assummed it was like the onion, but appears the irishtimes business section plays to the businesses it attracts ( of shitty companies avoiding taxes in their own country)

permalink
report
parent
reply
156 points

There’s a great reply to this in the same publication: https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/2024/04/27/quiet-quitters-or-good-workers/

Sir, – I read with interest Olive Keogh’s article (“Quiet quitting: You always had workers who did 9-5 but it’s a creeping malaise, employers say”, April 25th).

The article defines working one’s contract hours as a form of quitting, a contortion of fact that I have struggled to grasp since laying eyes on it.

It is asserted that employees are obliged to put in extra hours, do additional work and recalibrate their work-life balance for the “benefits” of social capital, “wellbeing” and career success.

I have a novel proposal. Pay employees in actual capital for the additional time they are expected to work.

Dispense with the relaxation classes on their lunch breaks and the sweet treats and the tokenistic attitude of management to the labour that drives their business.

Instead, resource staff sufficiently to complete work within business hours, respect the rights of staff to a fulfilling life not defined by their day jobs, and stop using gaslighting terms like “quiet quitting” for fulfilling the terms of their contract of employment.

This may seem radical to those managers who have been around the block, but KPIs (key performance indicators) don’t spend time with my loved ones nor do they put food on the table. – Yours, etc,

SHANE FITZPATRICK,

Dublin 7.

permalink
report
reply
26 points

That letter is way too polite for the “go fuck yourselves” that I had in mind… I honestly think we should start actually spitting in the faces of managers of that kind that we happen to know in private life, be it family or neighbors, just show them disdain and disgust coming from people whom they have no power over.

permalink
report
parent
reply
6 points

Agreed. However, the letter you or I might have written probably wouldn’t have been published. Haha.

permalink
report
parent
reply
135 points

Unionize people. I joined a union and there’s no “we’re a team” bullshit or the boss going “do me a favor”. 4pm hits, you drop what you’re doing and go home. You get paid for your job, and the union fees are nothing considering the pay is way higher for union workers in my field.

permalink
report
reply
20 points

Depends on the Union, sadly. My wife was a Union rep, she had a grievence, the higher up union leaders and the employer met ahead of her scheduled meeting and screwed her over in the grievance meeting. I’m not sure if she was more mad at losing the grievance, or having to pay dues to be screwed by the union.

permalink
report
parent
reply
46 points

This happens at my job too. Overall the benefits of my union far outweigh how shit they are and the union dues. I’d rather have a crappy union than none at all.

I know my company would screw me over much worse than my union and company combined if there was no union.

permalink
report
parent
reply
-17 points

I’ve found having a spine is much more beneficial than remaining at a job a person hates and expected some union rep to do the looking out for yourself on your behalf.

permalink
report
parent
reply
9 points

My unionized company changed our mandated hours from 45 hours a week to 50 hours a week like 2 weeks after I joined it was one of the shittiest jobs I ever had. Pay was good but only because I was forced to sit there for 10 hours a day lol

permalink
report
parent
reply
31 points

Imagine how shitty that job would have been without a union!

Unions dont make shitty jobs better, dude, get a clue.

permalink
report
parent
reply
34 points

I don’t think these problems should be dismissed out of hand. There is guidance out there on how to take back a shitty union.

The UAW has long been neutered with poor leadership, and sometimes leadership that gets thrown in jail for good reasons. They’ve recently rebuilt and are making huge gains.

https://www.hamiltonnolan.com/p/trampoline-unionism

permalink
report
parent
reply
0 points

It’s fine though I quit it and got a normal non union job that’s incredible. Better starting pay better benefits more time off no forced OT while I can work as much OT I want. Gravy job so glad I quit.

permalink
report
parent
reply
10 points

One of the very few interviews in my life that I ended early was the one where in the third hour of it, they usually mentioned that the (competitive) salary was based on a 45 hour work week, with “occasional” mandatory overtime as the needs of the company dictated.

Knowing from earlier that they were very short at the position I was interviewing for, I asked for a more specific answer on what I could expect as “occasional” and the response was, “Well the work for your position has been backlogged since the previous employee quit, so for the first 3 to 6 months you can expect to work 50-60 hours each week, every week. After that, it will probably only be two weeks a month. But you can work those extra hours on the weekends too, so it’s not as bad as it sounds!”

I was already done but I did some quick mental math and realized that dividing even their higher salary by that many more hours, not only was it insanely more work but was actually like a 15% pay cut, in terms of hourly rate, than the job I currently had.

I explained this to the guy and asked how much wiggle room there was on salary and he basically said something to the effect of, “Maybe in a few years you can negotiate salary, but coming in you’re really in no position to argue for more pay.”

So I thanked him for his time and told him the interview was over.

permalink
report
parent
reply
3 points

They don’t just need an employee, they need 2.

permalink
report
parent
reply

Work Reform

!workreform@lemmy.world

Create post

A place to discuss positive changes that can make work more equitable, and to vent about current practices. We are NOT against work; we just want the fruits of our labor to be recognized better.

Our Philosophies:

  • All workers must be paid a living wage for their labor.
  • Income inequality is the main cause of lower living standards.
  • Workers must join together and fight back for what is rightfully theirs.
  • We must not be divided and conquered. Workers gain the most when they focus on unifying issues.

Our Goals

  • Higher wages for underpaid workers.
  • Better worker representation, including but not limited to unions.
  • Better and fewer working hours.
  • Stimulating a massive wave of worker organizing in the United States and beyond.
  • Organizing and supporting political causes and campaigns that put workers first.

Community stats

  • 3.5K

    Monthly active users

  • 951

    Posts

  • 17K

    Comments