EDIT: I should’ve read the article, but I’m taking the L and leaving this up with a strikethrough. The phrasing “after” in the headline definitely creates the wrong impression here. As for what this says about people, I guess we’ll have to see if the other ten whistleblowers still testify.
And if you think it’s too much to assume Boeing killed these two people, that’s the wrong question. It matters more whether as a fellow whistleblower it’s reasonable to worry about whether Boeing killed them, and I think it is.
Also Boeing definitely killed the first guy at least. “If I die, it’s not suicide.” - man who “committed suicide”. WTAF.
If you ever hear anyone talking about how humans suck and we’re all terrible and will definitely destroy ourselves, just think about the fact that killing whistleblowers was quickly followed by more whistleblowers. Not just lone heros, but ten fucking people said, “hey, fuck you, are you really gonna kill me too?” knowing that the answer could well be “yes”.
Funny, just yesterday probably I was arguing with someone in another thread that was saying the people here don’t actually think Boeing had these whistleblowers killed, it was just making “implications and jokes.”
And here, very clearly, with a massive number of upvotes we have someone claiming that Boeing had them killed and that resulted in brave souls coming out afterward. lol
However, this also exposes another huge complaint I have with your typical lemmy-er (lemming? lemmite? what do you call a user of lemmy?): Almost no one reads the fucking article.
This isn’t about new whistleblowers coming out, but their lawyer claiming he is afraid that current whistle blowers will be “scared away.”
But, of course, what I’ve learned on reddit and even more so on lemmy is that the facts don’t matter, only the narrative.
Almost no one reads the fucking article.
You are describing the human species. Through its entire history.
Agreed. Although I will say… While people not reading the articles was extremely common on reddit… Sadly, I feel like Lemmy is even worse about it.
Yes, varying people have different opinions on subjects. It is easy to think a comment with upvotes is the way the hivemind goes, but the hivemind has multiple factions.
I, personally, have no opinion on the matter. The dude was septic and had a stroke. While it seems unlikely that was murder, I guess it is possible if you have infinite resources to make it look natural. But that is one HELL of a coincidence to have two whistle-blowers die . … like. … pretty fucking insane. Watch these next ten all die and no one important bats an eye.
Yes but our current society vests power in the corporation doing the killing. It’s a problem as old as civilization, but one we still haven’t solved. The problem is that these institutions and the technology they wield has never been greater.
We need an impartial lawnmower. Something external to the species that comes in and cuts the biggest ones in half. And it needs to be incorruptible and powerful enough to do this.
Damn, I think I just invented god again.
Yep… Times will change and eventually the faceless bureaucracy world we have now will morph into something more like Roman imperial military dictatorship or European absolutist monarchies. I only hope we can organically build social mitigations to the centralising power of information technology before that happens. Because as bad as it is now it would be much worse then
I mean If it was an organized thing then I’m not sure it’s so dumb
They can kill two people but if ten more people die it would look really bad on there part and would become undeniable
I don’t know seems like everyone I know is convinced that the first two murders were coincidence. What is keeping 10 more being that way?
I was talking to someone the other day who was really bent out of shape over an extremely unpleasant customer. The kind of interaction that sticks with you for years.
I told my perspective on people. We tend to remember remarkable things - stuff that really stands out from the normal. The news media does the same thing. Normal, everyday stuff isn’t “newsworthy.”
So when an asshole customer stands out that much, it’s because it’s such a rare experience. People are mostly good, so the goodness doesn’t stand out.
Counterpoint. There was one whistleblower killed, there are lots of people on this case like Boeing staff, government employees, the police, senators, the president, who haven’t done shit. Now there are two murders. Any of the people who SHOULD be doing something about it doing anything? No. Now there are 12 brave people against the thousands of shit people.
Anyone saying humans suck and are terrible is likely a terrible person themselves. Decent people tend to see the better aspect of humanity.
This is a leap. You can be a good person and also see that people as a whole can be both wonderful and absolutely terrible. This is a story about a mega corp murdering two whistleblowers, so far. In this case, the people involved in making this a headline suck and are terrible.
Tbf the evidence for the second person is not strong - that stuff does legit happen.
But the first guy? Damn! That’s enough right there.
There’s 2 kinds of evidence.
- Circumstantial evidence - relies on an inference to connect it to the conclusion (e.g. guy saying before hand he won’t kill himself).
- Direct evidence - no additional inference/evidence is needed (e.g. video of a guy going up to the car and shooting him).
The guy saying he won’t kill himself requires inferring that he’s being truthful when he said it and that he didn’t change his mind. It’s not non-evidence, it does point to suicide being less likely. But it’s far from conclusive. If there’s no sign of entering the vehicle or that a struggle occurred, then I’d argue that far outweighs his prior statement.
They just happened to work at the same company and die right before they could testify on the same thing.
That’s also a common misunderstanding, at least regarding the first (I’m not as familiar with the second). I’m a bit unclear on the details of the deposition - which side wanted it and was asking the questions, etc. (detailed here) but whatever the case, it was Boeing that demanded he come back for one more day. So if Boeing wanted him to not testify that day, they’d just send him home as originally planned. The only reason they’d do it then was to silence him generally…but doing it in a way that draws so much suspicion to them seems like an implausibly bad decision. Then again, it is Boeing. (Note that this is also circumstantial evidence, and requires assuming that Boeing isn’t so dumb as to kill a witness in the middle of their own deposition, which may not be warranted).
Edit: corrected my own misunderstanding of deposition
That guy also had a history of mental issues and anxiety. He was away from home experiencing high stress environments, like a court room, and he was looking at another court appearance that day.
It doesn’t take a genius to see that maybe, just maybe, this is a coincidence instead of murder. He had already given the bulk of his testimony, so I really don’t see the motive here.
Can I have source plz
I’m not doubting you it’s just that’s so comedic I need to see it for myself
Yes. What you are listing are coincidences.
Also understand that it is pretty rare for a whistleblower to have any future in the industry they are blowing the whistle on. That is throwing away years of schooling and often decades of experience. People tend to not do that if they aren’t already ill and not expecting a long life.
As for “if I die, it is not suicide”: Gonna get real dark for a moment. A lot of people are just looking for a way to make their life, or death, matter. Someone realizing they don’t want to put themselves and their family through a very long trial might very well use that as an excuse to take the easy way out.
All that said: Obviously these need to be investigated. But there is a big difference between investigating a suspicious death and immediately jumping to conspiracy.
There is plenty of evidence of foul play you smartass. They willingly risked lives over many years and are still currently flying many planes with defective unsafe parts. Going from that to assasination is not a big leap.
Multiple of the whistleblowers and their colleagues have also independently said that their workplace was directly and deliberately sabotaged in order to continue using defective parts.
Yes the last one doesnt really look like a typical assasination but it doesnt matter in the slightest if it was or not.
Well…the first dude did say something about Boeing killing whistleblowers and the bravery of others to step up in defiance of that.
So that whole line of thinking is conspiracy theory stuff with no real proof and it is being parroted here. Granted, usually the assassination stuff is usually tongue in cheek, but the top comment seems a bit crazy.
Even if the dude that “killed himself” did do it to himself, he did so because he was harassed by a company for doing his job. Even in the non conspiracy version of the story, the corporation still acted in bad faith and should be held liable for it’s actions. Why is this the hill you want to die on?
Bolexforpoop back wih pigshit again. The reason i don’t block you is your neverending entertainment value. Keep posting king.
Three-day old account, I wouldn’t be surprised if they had another one that was banned.
One death is coincidental, two is suspicious, any more and it’s gonna become plainly obvious, and now there’s 10. That’s just delicious. They can’t silence them all.
1 dead whistleblower is a tragedy. 10 dead whistleblowers are a statistic.
So in other words, very plausible deniability.
https://allthatsinteresting.com/heart-attack-gun
We had that tech in 1968. I’m pretty sure it would be a matter of a phone call and some change from the couch cushions for Boeing to create the recent outcome.
Does this mean they did it? No.
Does it warrant the reaction folks are having about it? Absolutely yes. (Edit - In light of their current troubles and the fate of the prior whistleblower.)
which could cause death in minutes without leaving a trace.
Aside from the puncture wound.
And it is suspected that thousand of elderly people are murdered every year, but it is ruled as a natural death, because the demographic is prone to natural deaths and nobody bothers to check further.
At the very least demanding a throughout investigation in both cases is absolutely reasonable.
The first wasn’t coincidental. He said “hey they might murder me” then he died right before testifying.
Well, iirc he didn’t show for his deposition, or the day after, or the day after that, at which point the lawyers sent people to find him and found he “committed suicide”.
This is after he said “I am absolutely not going to commit suicide over this. If I die and people say it was suicide, I was killed.”
Even one death under these circumstances is not a coincidence, and that ought to be coded into law. You’d better fucking well hope the person who blows a whistle on you is healthy - that’s the world we should move towards. Not that that couldn’t also be abused, but the pendulum is way too fucking far this way.
Gotta love my fellow millennials - battered old souls that only the offer of getting murdered gets us properly motivated.
Most of us see that as a perk. “Wait, I can die right now, painlessly? Like totally painless? Where do I sign up?”
I mean, if the choice is instant, painless death or decade after decade of your parents asking why you don’t own a house, I guess death is fine?
I mean, I dont care abut pain as much as time - like I would settle for something interesting, like getting sucked off to death … into a jet engine at max speed.
The hitperson is the only competent employee left at Boeing.
You could just say ‘assassin’. “Hitperson” makes it sound like some HR-designated position, awkwardly titled in some neutral, milquetoast way as not to offend anyone.
“Hitperson” makes it sound like some HR-designated position, awkwardly titled in some neutral, milquetoast way as not to offend anyone.
That was intentional, I’m happy someone noticed.
Like the title of a Wes Anderson short, lol
It’s just a single shot of Bill Murray driving a car on a highway. He’s filmed from the passenger seat, and he’s telling a story of his dad, who worked as an engineer designing jet engines. And he’s all proud and going on and on.
And as he keeps talking, and as he keeps driving, you keep seeing shots of highway signs showing that you’re driving through rural Maryland on your way to Washington DC. You keep driving and he keeps telling a story about his father and how proud he was and eventually comes out that he worked for Boeing.
And you keep driving and he keeps telling a story and eventually you pull up in front of the building in Washington DC, and he gets out and the camera keeps pointing at the driver seat, but he walks out of frame and he walks into the building and you can hear some screaming in a couple gunshots and then cut to the credits.
Boeing:
