[Transcription]
tinymoves
to be honest it would make me a lot more comfortable if you guys would show a little concern about trump running for president again. Do not inbox me and say you don’t like joe biden omg i already know. but can we show a little concern. about donald trump. being the republican candidate for president. for the third election in a row.
parentheticalaside
Also maybe you can focus a little more on how Trump won’t stop fucking running and a little less on the incumbent president running for reelection once, which is the natural path that is not at all weird. Like, the fact that it’s these same two guys again is Trump’s fault, not Biden’s. What Biden
is doing is normal. What Trump is doing is very much not.
theroguefeminist
Going to come out here and say this: if you do not vote for Biden, you are voting for Trump. | literally do not care what horde of leftists with the memory span of a goldfish come for me for saying this. A third party vote is no vote. No vote is a vote for Trump. If you care at all about saving democracy in this country long enough to elect someone better than Biden, vote for Biden. Not voting for Biden is a vote for a dictator and a vote for the end of democracy. As bad as things are, we saw they can get so much worse. And | do not want to hear the same people saying not to vote for Biden crying when shit hits the fan if Trump wins.
If you care about trans people’s rights. If you care about abortion rights. If you care about immigrants’ rights. If you care about global warming. Literally any issue under the sun, will be made worse by Trump in every conceivable way imaginable.
| have a hard time fathoming how people are
still saying Trump and Biden are the same after everything that has happened. A quick Google
on Biden’s policies on every progressive issue vs Trump will tell you the opposite. Yeah, Biden is a shitty moderate liberal who supports Israel. So
is literally every single other US president that has ever fucking existed. Voting for a third party candidate will not help Palestine. It will literally only escalate things and make them even worse if Trump wins. In every conceivable way imaginable.
If you aren’t going to vote, then at least have the decency to stop pretending like what you are doing has any remotely positive impact. It does not. There is nothing virtuous or admirable about abstaining (and a third party vote is abstaining). We went through this in 2016. | thought people would have learned by now. But here we are again in 2024. If Trump wins, blood is on your hands and you didn’t do even the one easiest thing you could do to stop it from happening.
synnefa-kyria
The DNC was never going to nominate another primary candidate over the incumbent, the sitting president, who is in charge of the entire Democratic party.
| don’t think the sun shines out of Biden’s ass, guys, but please look at the bigger picture here.
Our presidential election is not ranked choice and is not won by a majority of over 50%. It is a two party system that is won by plurality; whoever gets the biggest slice of votes, even if it’s under 50%, is the winner and they take all. First the district, then the state, then the Electoral College. This is why third parties have little influence. This is why voting for them or not at all benefits the opposition. This is why Trump won in 2016.
A 2024 Trump victory is an not something we as a nation can bear - it’s bad for us, and it is unseeakabl bad for Palestine because Trump’s a far-right lunatic lacking morals and human compassion.
Not voting for Biden, third party or abstaining, will split the vote and cause a spoiler in favor
of Trump. See the 2000 Georee W Bush vs Al Gore election for reference. Take a long look at those razor thin mareins. Al Gore lost Florida
by 0.009%. Hell, walk down memory lane to the 2016 election. States where Trump won by a margin of 3% or less - Colorado, Florida, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin - would have won Hillary the Electoral College, 316 to 224,
We cannot fore et Russia’s war on Ukraine either. Do you honestly think Trump will want to continue US aid to Ukraine? Really? The
guy who’s all buddy-buddy with Putin and has Russia-supporting followers? He’s been vocal about his lack of enthusiasm for supporting Ukraine, and has threatened to hamstring NATO - Ukraine’s principal ally - should the situation escalate further.
Russia is angling towards a return of the Soviet Union’s former territory - look at Ukraine, Belarus, Moldova, Georgia (the country). Appeasement is not an option - that’s a proven failure. A possible return to the Cold War status quo is horrifying, and there’s every reason to believe they won’t stop there, setting off a multitude of geopolitical tinder boxes. God above forbid any one of the parties involved sets off a nuclear bomb, tactical or ICBM.
24,670 notes
Bloody nailed it.
Someday I’d like to hear a rational explanation about why the worse the Republican is, the more conservative and uncharismatic the Dem has to be.
Like, if all that matters is stopping Republicans…
Why aren’t we running someone that people like?
A Bill Clinton or Barack Obama type that actively went after the youth vote, opened a dialog with voters, and took feedback to make their campaigns more appealing?
Historically speaking, that’s a slam dunk.
We can keep trying to berate the youth into voting, but the thing about 18 year olds is, there’s always 18 year olds. Convince this batch to hold their nose, and we got to convince the next one again. Plus re-convirnce the old batch again. Someone that’s 30 right now has spent almost half their life being told that they have no say in who they vote for, they just have to vote against trump.
How are people surprised they feel disenfranchised?
Why can’t we try listening to the youth, and trust that as the future party moves further to the left, they stay with the party?
If only there was a post that explained pretty passionately and coherently how Trump wanting to end Democracy and kill a bunch of Palestinians and Ukrainians and Americans, and God knows who else, is objectively more important than all of that
I’m not trying to be an asshole or dismissive or anything, but you are commenting directly under a pretty clear explanation of why not electing Trump is literal life and death, by saying literally the exact type of “but I don’t feeeeeeeelllll like it, isn’t that important, too” that this person is pretty pointedly discrediting
Maybe be mad at the party who keeps putting forward shitty candidates rather than the people who are fed up with the shitty candidates? You can’t have it both ways, saying every vote matters, and then also say but you have to vote for our old ghoul or you get someone worse. That’s the establishment propaganda that thankfully some people have grown out of. I’m not even American but by God reading all this fucking biden apologist discourse has me feeling so fucking sorry for your country. Yeah trump is bad bit at least he owns who he is. Voting biden at this point would feel like a fucking moral failing. I’d probably still do it bit I’d never stop complaining about it and fuck all of you who expect people not to complain. Your system is blatantly screwing you over and you’re just like “thank you more please. Please not the trump again”
Voting biden at this point would feel like a fucking moral failing
Not voting or voting for trump is an objectively worse moral failing. No good options, choose the one that results in the possibility for positive change. A dictatorship does not have that possibility without a war.
I read up until “both ways”. Honestly, I’ve read enough of these comments before to know what you’re getting at.
To recap whatever comes to mind quick: 40% reduction in emissions by 2030, proper labor people at the NLRB leading to all these union gains, domestic manufacturing and infrastructure, massive increases in corporate tax to pay for all that stuff, gains in wages at the low end, reductions in wealth inequality. Biden’s doing good.
You might not agree. But, as the nice lady pointed out, it doesn’t really matter. He’s who we got. Biden’s who we got. It’s either this guy or death. You wanna pick a better guy next time? Fuckin fantasic, if you wanna get involved with the Democrats or any other party and try to put up someone better, that sounds like a pretty good idea to me.
But the fuckin house is on fire and the kids are still inside and you’re out there fistfighting with the firefighters, trying to stop them getting in, and while the whole thing is spreading you’re saying I TOLD YOU WE NEEDED THE DIFFERENT INSURANCE COMPANY YOU GUYS ARE ALL FUCKIN UP YOU SHOULD HAVE DONE BETTER
Trump is the end of any of these better candidates and better than Biden progress that you say are your goal. He is the end of Palestine and Ukraine. He is the end of Hispanics in the United States; he already put some of them in concentration camps. Some of them died in there, some of their kids died in there, some had their kids taken away somewhere and still don’t have them back. He has a detailed plan for how to take over next time, and do much more. He wants to put his political opponents in prison. He wants to make it illegal for the press to criticize him. He wants the military to seize the voting machines. He wants to shoot protestors. He talks about how he shouldn’t have term limits. And, if he dies in office, that whole machinery is available for someone else who’s maybe not the world’s stupidest and most incompetent man to take over, and run it all for real. Like, for real for real.
Quit fuckin twisting it around. I don’t care. This tumblr person is right. As pertains to this election, this whole thing of “oo nice try but this candidate’s not good enough for me, you should have done better” is a pile of shit, and always has been.
Either say, yes we should vote against the end of the world, or admit that you’re pushing for the option that’s the end of the world. Quit twisting it around into something else, because that’s the choice.
Where do you think ‘the party’ comes from, the people who make these bad decisions? Are you active in local politics? Do you educate yourself and vote in local elections? Most people act like the only election there is, is the presidential election, and wonder why they feel disconnected from the choices. Well there are a million small choices going into who that pool of bad choices is winnowed from, and who is making backroom decisions playing into it, and most people are clueless how any of it works, uninterested to learn, and completely checked out. Well that’s how we end up here.
Where do you think ‘the party’ comes from, the people who make these bad decisions?
Well, the current leader of the DNC was appointed by Joe Biden in 2021…
The selection of Mr. Harrison, on the heels of Mr. Biden’s victories in Arizona and Georgia in November, reflects the president-elect’s longstanding determination for Democrats to compete in once-red states, a recognition that the party will never sustain an enduring congressional majority without making inroads across the Sun Belt.
Mr. Biden’s top advisers are also planning to appoint a small group of elected Democrats as vice chairs to reward their support in the campaign and offer them the opportunity to be high-profile surrogates. Gov. Gretchen Whitmer of Michigan, Senator Tammy Duckworth of Illinois, Representative Filemon Vela of Texas and Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms of Atlanta will serve in the roles.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/14/us/politics/jaime-harrison-dnc-chairman.html
Technically the DNC could vote against the president, but they didn’t even do that to Obama. For details in who the ~477 people are and how it happens:
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/11/23/13703720/dnc-chair-election-rules-members
From the rest of you comment, I think that link would be beneficial.
Especially this part:
Up to 75 slots are appointed by the DNC chair
You seem to think it’s a lot more democratic than it really is.
Not at all, nor am I saying it’s a good system. But the realities of how individuals shape the system and determine who is making discisions starts at the local level, and happens over time, and it does come to reflect the interests of those who choose to participate, and not those who don’t. This is just the reality of how power operates.
Are we now to the point where we’re deifying Clinton? He had sex with a subordinate (likely more than one). His policies resulted in incarceration of minorities, and a decline in life standards for people at the bottom of the income distribution. You are NOT the first person who had to hold his nose while voting for the lesser evil, and frankly in his day the GOP candidate looked much better than it does now.
Are we now to the point where we’re deifying Clinton?
Absolutely not
All we’re talking about is campaigns, and how likely they are to result in a Dem president.
Because, as Biden loves to say:
All that matters is beating trump.
His policies resulted in incarceration of minorities,
The crime bill?
That was literally Biden’s baby… Pretty sure he’s still bragging about it and saying it was a great idea…
You are NOT the first person who had to hold his nose while voting for the lesser evil,
Mate, I’ve been doing it for almost 20 years.
08 Obama is the only time I actually wanted the person I voted for to win.
Some of the younglings have never even seen let alone participated in an election where we even thought we had a progressive option.
There is a persistent mythology among a certain type of Lemmy user (the type who also doesn’t want to vote for Biden) that Clinton was a super-great progressive president and the Democrats moved to the right since then.
I had one just recently who was telling me about how they and all their progressive friends were super happy about how he balanced the budget
It’s funny because even leaving Biden out of it, I remember the Carter -> Clinton -> Obama arc, and what progressive and activist people in the mid to late 90s were feeling about it, a little bit differently than that
The reason I think this misses the mark is because it presumes these people don’t know damn well what they’re doing at this point.
They’re already trying to pivot to accelerationist discourse. IE the discourse of white kids who are betting hard that they’re far enough up the kill list to wait out the collapse into fascism and following revolution, said revolution not being guaranteed by anything.
They are cynically broadcasting that they refuse to not be the glorious party chairmen of the anti-fascism efforts, and that they will knowingly let everyone else burn until they “learn their lesson” and stop trying to achieve their own agenda instead of just shutting up and falling in line with what the white leftist college fund kids want.
“It says M4A or it gets the Republicans again!”
I mean, a lot of them will openly say they’re for America’s destruction so any points about saving american democracy or whatever are moot. Same thing with Ukraine
It always amuses me how many of the people who espouse this viewpoint freely admit to not living in the US. And then continue to act like their opinion matters even though they will not be meaningfully affected regardless of who wins come November.
I don’t live in the US neither. But with how much sway it has with international politics, it electing a fascist as president will affect more than just americans
The propaganda trolls are, with rare exceptions, the only accounts I have ever seen who will say “I’m from X location and this is what I think.” I honestly have not the slightest idea why that is part of it, but unless some reason comes up for them to say where they’re from, most people will just do the “This is what I think” part.
Wow this screenshot of four people with the same opinion talking to each other in an echo chamber has really changed my mind. Thanks, internet!
When I was a teen protesting the Iraq war (which Biden supported, btw) we couldn’t imagine anyone worse than Dubya. Now we have Trump. Still probably not responsible for as many dead as Bush, but one could argue he’s worse on the domestic front. Now Bush hangs out with Ellen and we all laugh at his paintings like he’s a harmless old man.
So, join me in a thought experiment. Ten years from now someone comes along who’s worse than Trump. Are you going to be telling me I have to vote for Trump because this other person is so much worse? Democrats scream about how great the economy is, but for whom? Not for me or anyone I know. Biden enacts these limp-dick half-measures that satisfy neither the right nor the left. He’s a bad politician. Period. His one job is to convince constituents to re-elect him. He can’t even accomplish that. But since his opponent is awful I have to vote for him. Fuck that.
Who was president when abortion was stripped of federal protection. Who was president when we started funding not one but two proxy wars overseas? Inflation. Shrinkflation. Student loans. You can bandy about all the google searches you want, the proof is in Americans’ day-to-day lives. Page one of the Dems playbook is to say, “Oh dear we wish we could help, but those pesky Republicans…!” And yet when they had control of the Exec and the Legislative branches in Obama’s first term, what leftist utopia did they create?
Read the transcript of Biden’s most recent Time interview. The whole thing. The man doesn’t complete a single thought. And we on the left love to shit on Trump (rightfully so) for talking like an incoherent hospice patient.
Palestine is merely the latest in a long long litany of disappointments, blunders, and outright betrayals (see the railworkers union-busting). If Biden was my employee I’d fire him. If he was my boss I’d quit. But he’s just my president so I’m not voting for him.
You forgot to mention that gas was very cheap, that the world economy was booming, and that Russia was too scared to invade Ukraine during trump’s presidency.
It’s honestly easy to forgot how bad things were when Biden took office. A big fraction of the country was still living on Covid assistance; unemployment had’t come back anywhere near non emergency levels. The US is the only country that managed to recover as if all that shit hadn’t happened. And, the news is so good at twisting things that most people say they trust Trump more on the economy although Biden has whatever good intentions that they like instead etc etc.
Who was president when abortion was stripped of federal protection?
You mean a decision that was made by supreme court justices appointed by the previous administration? The president does not control every policy decision that gets made in America, believe it or not. Almost like there are three branches of government or something.
Who was president when we started funding not one but two proxy wars overseas?
Ukraine is only getting ancient military surplus that we couldn’t use anywhere else anyway. I agree that his support for Israel sucks but unlike Trump we can (and are) talking him out of it. Also will you quit bitching and moaning about the strain on our tax dollars. You sound like a Republican.
Inflation. Shrinkflation.
I think this is more due to corporate greed than fiscal policy at any level, judging by how many mega corporations turned record profits this year.
2 Choices in 2024 #1 The man who is killing student debt, building infrastructure, going after medical debt, and so many more thing to help average Americans. #2 The man who advised us to consume bleach and shine a light inside our bodies to KILL covid, which he said was not not coming here because China shut it down. Also convicted for business fraud, and many other things.
There’s more than 2 choices: you can vote for anyone that isn’t red or blue or you can stop delegating your vote to a corrupted system entirely.
Both the red and blue party have blood on their hands and are in bed with evil corporations.
In a system, where there is only one winner, everyone else are losers. Systems like that always tend to strongly favor a two party system like the us has and unless you can realistically bet on being able to mobilise more than half of the voters, your best bet will always be voting for one of the established parties, if you want your vote to count towards anything. For smaller party votes to count you need a system more akin to those of many European countries, where the government is split proportionally by the amount of votes per party. Then voting for smaller parties can actually have a significant impact.
Stop feeding on propaganda, you can vote for anyone you want and everyone has the same chances of winning. Stop supporting evil.
“if you do not vote for biden, you are voting for trump”
This is illogical and false.
Look around what’s happening: this strategy is being used all over the world to keep a bunch of elites in power, see recent eu elections, see france.
Did you even read the original post? A vote for a third party actually doesn’t matter.
Sure it does otherwise the government wouldn’t spend billions on propaganda to make you believe otherwise. The only vote that doesn’t matter is that for red and blue because nothing will ever change if you keep supporting them.
Can any of those randos win?
No.
You have two choices for who will become president. It will not be anyone else.
Can any of those randos win?
Yes, inform yourself who these randos are and stop spreading red and blue propaganda
You absolutely can vote for anyone you want, that is your right…but two of the options make you a complete utter moron and one shows you understand the game we are all playing, but you go vote 3rd party and if I hear you bitch about Trump turning the united states into a Christo fascist country I will pat you on the back saying you did this good job you dumbass