97 points
*

Semi-related, I’m still salty about Google’s rejection of JPEG XL. I can’t help but remember this when webp discussion crops up, since Google were the ones who created it.

Why care about JPEG XL?

Because it seems very promising. source with details.

Rejection?

Google started working on JPEG XL support for chrome, then dropped it despite significant industry support. Apple is also in, by the way.

Why do that?

Don’t know, many possible reasons. In fairness, even Mozilla hasn’t decided to fully invest in it, and libjxl hasn’t defined a stable public API yet.

That said, I don’t believe that’s the kind of issue that’d stop Google if they wanted to push something forward. They’d find a way, funding, helping development, something.

And unfortunately for all of us, Google Chrome sort of… Immensely influences what the web is and will be. They can’t excuse themselves saying “they’ll work on it, if it gains traction” when them supporting anything is fundamental to it gaining traction in the first place.

You’d have to believe Google is acting in good faith for the sake of the internet and its users. I don’t think I need to explain why that’s far from guaranteed and in many issues incredibly unlikely.

Useless mini-rant

I really need a single page with all this information I can link every time image standards in the web are mentioned. There’s stuff I’m leaving out because writing these comments takes some work, especially on a phone, and I’m kinda tired of doing it.

I still hold hope for JPEG XL and that Google will cave at some point.

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29 points

Yes, JPEG XL really is the one that got away. 😭

Hey Google, 🖕🖕 for killing it, man. Very evil and self-centered choice.

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12 points

Also I just noticed what the arrow in the image pointed to. Holy crap that would be awful if true.

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2 points
*

Yeah, sorry, that part I didn’t fact check myself so I didn’t even want to mention it. Like I said, many possible reasons.

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12 points

Not sure what you mean by “Google killed it”. JPEG XL proposal was only submitted in 2018 and it got standardized in 2022. It has a lot of features which are not available in browsers yet, like HDR support (support for HDR photos in Chrome on Android was only added 8 months ago, Firefox doesn’t support HDR in any shape at all), no browsers support 32 bits per component, there’s no support for thermal data or volume data, etc. You can’t just plug libjxl and call it a day, you have to rework your rendering pipeline to add all these features.

I’d argue that Google is actually working pretty hard on their pipeline to add missing features. Can’t say the same about Mozilla, who can’t even implement HDR for videos for over a decade now.

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17 points

They removed JPEG XL support from chrome. It was behind a feature flag previously.

(At least that’s what I gathered from reading the screenshot.)

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-1 points

Yeah, why keep a feature which doesn’t work? Once they add missing stuff to the renderer, they’ll add XL support back. But I guess that will take a few years.

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3 points

Can you provide a source on how Google is working hard on JPEG-XL missing features?

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1 point

As I said - photo HDR. Do you even read?

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2 points

Just imagine if there was an actual open consortium not spearheaded by monied commercial interests that could temper recent Google decisions. They’ve lost a lot, if not all, of their goodwill with old guard, open web standards nerds. And the old guard that still actively support their standards influencing schemes now make too much money to stop.

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84 points

Old meme.

Pretty much everything supports it now, and in case you haven’t noticed pretty much all the images on Lemmy are webp because it lets instances save tons and tons on bandwidth and storage.

The next “better but not yet supported” image format is .avif.

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21 points

Not the end of the world, but out of the few apps that don’t fit in the ‘pretty much everything’ group, messenger is one of them and I can’t share a good bunch of memes on Lemmy with my friends because of that. I usually end up screenshotting my own screen because of that.

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39 points
*

The format was introduced 13 years ago. Meta had the time, and we know they have the resources.

This is 200% on messenger being shit piece of crap software.

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4 points

Every time I have to fire up my Fb account, I’m stunned at how shit React is. It’s appalling how bad that framework has become. Maybe if they cared about implementing solid code and less about raping your life of metadata in order to sell you the worst products on the planet thru their “partners” things would be better.

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12 points
*

Avis Libre gallery can convert images from/to WEBP.

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1 point

Thanks! I wish the developers at Meta could afford something similar.

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1 point

Every time that happens, I just edit it in my gallery and it converts to something that messenger can use

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13 points

What doesn’t support avif? Even Apple devices support it and they are usually the last to adopt anything. I’ve crushed all my website using it and it turns a 1MB image to 80KB without quality loss, absolutely amazing compression!

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7 points
*

In websites it works great, there isn’t a browser around that can’t deal with it. Same how with when webp was new you’d run into it all over the web because there they were just better and worked fine.

It’s everything else that isn’t ready yet. My older android device can’t deal with them in apps, no AV1 decoder maybe? Dunno.

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2 points

Not many processors have AV1 hardware decoders yet (Apple thru them in on their M3’s last year and latest iPhone 15 Pros) so I can’t see it being that. There’s also software decoding that works fine. My wallpaper on macOS has been avif since last year (Sonoma) and works without issue. I don’t think it works in Windows 10 tho. No issues with the latest Ubuntu and I’m not familiar at all with Android OS.

In any case, I think it’s the best thing to come out in a long time. My website with raw PNGs was about 120MB. I crushed those PNGs with noticeable quality loss down to 50MB. I then crushed the original 120MB down to 60MB with minimal to no visual quality loss using webp. But I got it down to 25MB without loss using avif at 85% compression. Just insane performance, couldn’t be more impressed!

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8 points

.avif is supported by all major browsers but application support sucks.

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3 points

Indeed. Ready for websites, not everyday media files.

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6 points

Heh, AOMedia Video Image Format

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7 points
*

Yeah it uses the AV1 video codec for compression. Which go figure, works really well for images, too! And the format can do animated images, too.

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8 points

Cool, a replacement for GIFs too.

Next you’ll tell me you can add sound to it and make AVIFs with sound, won’t you?

spoiler

Someone once said something to the tune of “Imagine if GIFs could have sound”, to which people pointed out that those are just called videos.

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3 points

I actually decided to use avif on my project. But both this and webp is as fast as I know, not supported in any default image viewer on windows. Which is rater annoying, but I moved on to better programs for tgat anyways.

Avif is second to jxl though, some of the downsides of being a video format is that you loose progressive loading (only top to bottom iirc), degrades on re-encodes, and some other things I can’t think of. Avif gets a win because if you have a av1 decoder you already have a avif decoder too! But since it is a video frame essential there are some downsides since some image specific features can’t or won’t be added.

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2 points

Not avif, but jxl

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1 point

Okay can someone please explain why Facebook Messenger on my phone keeps saying it can’t support gifs? Yes yes I’m an old man, but on the other hand what the fuck, fucking gifs? Are they devolving faster than Google?
(Also like, the gif feature built into Facebook Messenger itself. The longer I think about this problem, the more I think the app is just throwing the wrong error)

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4 points

Messenger is just crap.

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1 point

No argument there.

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-2 points

I’ll change my mind about .webp when Microsoft Teams can recognize it as an image and display it correctly.

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9 points

I’ll say the same thing about teams as I did messenger.

The format was introduced 13 years ago. MS had the time, and we know they have the resources.

This is 200% on teams being shit piece of crap software.

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55 points

I use the Firefox extension Save WebP as PNG or JPEG (Converter).

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8 points

Same. Very useful.

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5 points

I got excited when I saw this post because I knew someone in the comments would have a solution!

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30 points

Is this some windows problem I’m too FOSS to understand?

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13 points

Not really? Just lucky.

Go back and eddit this comment when you download a webp and nothing can use it.

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10 points
*

I have plenty of WEBP and every image editing/viewing application I have installed can use it fine. Including, but not limited to:

pdn, GIMP, Krita, Aseprite, InkScape, OpenToonz, IrfanView

I think Apple users have issues with Webm & Webp? But the issue here is using Apple products in the first place. Losing 90% of basic functionality is what you expect when using one of those.

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4 points

Maybe then I’m the unlucky one that want to use things that don’t support it.

And I’m not on Apple lol (linux)

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4 points

All the memes I send to my friends on messenger basically come from Lemmy. I always have to download the image and use the phone image editor to crop it by one pixel. It then let’s me save it, and it saves as jpg/png by default.

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-1 points

Yeah but memes don’t need high quality?

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4 points

Skill issue, the only actual drawback is that some legacy systems whitelisted image extensions and haven’t been updated. Even then just take a screenshot and upload that.

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1 point

Windows can only display .bmp images apparently. It’s an old problem.

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0 points

Don’t think so cause if I change the extension to PNG or JPG it works just fine

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30 points

I hate .webp, almost no software supports it. I can see it reduces the amount of space, but I’m always having to convert it

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22 points

That format is awful from a user perspective.

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9 points
*

How so. I get that the support isn’t there yet, but how is the format itself awful

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6 points

The format itself is perfectly fine, it’s just that most software doesn’t work with formats made in the 21st century

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-1 points
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Literally, you answered your own question. From the user end, unsupported file types of any frequently shared format are garbage. No one cares on the user end about server space. They care about sharing a funny image. They don’t care about 2 extra ms of load speed. They want shit to just work.

It’s the same reason Open Office sucks. You can’t rely on it to just work. As much as dev’s hate it (myself too), reliability is king. Webp fails this measure, badly.

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1 point

Why? I use it all the time and never had issues with it

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6 points

The only program that I ever use that doesn’t support webp is Facebook Messenger.

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12 points

Lucky

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1 point
*

It performs like trash when trying to copy to text messages.

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