I’m very conflicted about this whole thing. On the one hand, yeah it’s kind of a scandal and people have every right to be booing him every time he touches the ball.
On the other hand, he was convicted, sentenced, did time and is now back in society apparently showing remorse. People are calling for his career to end and various wishes of death on him. Why can’t he continue his life?
Are we supposed to lock up all criminals forever? Kill them? Just not allow them to follow their chosen career after getting out? Or is it just sports they shouldn’t be allowed to participate in?
apparently showing remorse
He showed no remorse. He called it nonsense. He said he made mistakes as a youth. He has not even bothered to offer anything in the way of an apology.
I also saw those statements on his wiki. Also saw some about it being “the worst mistake of his life”. I don’t imagine he would get parole without showing remorse.
You don’t imagine? Well then that proves it. He’s very sorry he raped a 12-year-old girl over and over even though he’s never said so in public.
I agree with you pretty much on all points.
I am also conflicted.
It’s up to courts and parole boards to determine what punishments are appropriate, given the context of the crimes.
I don’t like the guy, and of course his crime was repugnant, but I can still acknowledge that he’s one of the best volleyball players in the world. These two opinions are incongruous and yet, they exist at the same time.
For me, there’s a difference between rehabilitation and letting someone represent your country at the olympics. Athletes don’t have to be perfect but to a certain extent they are ambassadors of their country and role models.
This paired with him not staying in prison for long because the Dutch legal system is fucking abysmal is reason enough for me to celebrate that he’s out.
My thought is more along the lines of, “Regardless of his talent level, is this really the kind of person that his country wants representing them on the world stage?”
Like, okay even if he’s the absolute best by an order of magnitude…if he were from my country, I’d rather lose every match than win on the talents of someone like that.
First of all, not all crimes are the same nor should be treated equally.
Secondly, he raped a 12 year old, and that’s unredeemable in a lot of people’s book.
did time and is now back in society apparently showing remorse.
Nope, neither of those.
What do you mean? He served 13 months and got out on parole. He’s publicly expressed remorse, but that isn’t exactly conclusive. I assume there would have been some genuine remorse inside, otherwise there would be no parole.
My point is, if you stop anyone who has been to jail returning to normal society at all, then why let them out at all? You might as well just put every criminal in jail for life, or just kill them straight away.
“I can’t reverse it, so I have to carry the consequences. It’s the biggest mistake of my life.”
Source: The article linked in the OP
If that’s not remorse, I don’t know what is.
Remorse: “I am sorry for what I did and the impact it had on the victim. I made stupid choices that hurt another person, and while I can never take that back, I will seek to do better so no one needs to suffer from my actions again.”
Not sorry you did it, just sorry you got caught: “I can’t reverse it, so I have to carry the consequences. It’s the biggest mistake of my life.”
He did barely a year of prison… I personally don’t quite think it’s enough for raping a kid, but hey that’s just my opinion
Enough for what? Your sense of vengeance? I don’t know, only you can tell… Enough for rehabilitation? I don’t know, but it is possible. Time needed for rehabilitation varies widely. It’s quite possible the year was enough. One thing we do know is that the Netherlands is heavily in favour of rehabilitation over punishment, since rehabilitation actually forwards society
This is exactly the point I’m trying to make, but am getting downvoted because I apparently sound like a “child rape apologist”.
I understand the crime is emotionally charged, but that doesn’t mean anyone convicted of it should just be thrown in the oubliette.
This site is full of left wing fakers who blow their cover when it comes to stuff like this.
I am European and heavily against punitive justice. But I think one year of prison for a crime almost universally considered among the worst is not enough for rehabilitation, and I find this opinion validated by the lack of understanding or even remorse shown by the guy in public statements
While I agree this seems extremely small. The netherlands is not the US. The specifics of court cases are not made public. We have no idea about them. It might be a very ambiguous case that barely fit the definition of rape or whatever.
Not trying to defend rape or rapists, but we may need more context before we can judge the length of a sentence.
Edit: I just read a less opinionated in depth article on him, and from the details I see, man he fucked up bad, in my opinion he deserved more than 13 months. He got sentenced to 4 years at first but that got cut short.
I agree, it seems like a small amount on the face of it.
But at the same time, I’m more inclined to trust the judgement of the prison system (at least in The Netherlands) as to whether he is ready to return to society.
I’m not conflicted. I’m not saying he should be in jail forever. But I’m also saying it’s clear that he shouldn’t be representing his country on the world stage. That’s a privilege you should lose forever when you rape a child. Cause remember, going to the Olympics is a privilege, not a right. It’s like yeah he served your time, would you let him babysit your daughter now then? Or let him hang out at schools? You gotta forgive, but you’re stupid if you forget
There’s a system in place for that. It’s called ‘verklaring omtrent gedrag’. For many jobs and positions you need this certificate of conduct in order to apply. The ministry of justice will not hand out the certificate if your crime is related to the position you apply for. This means he would probably never be allowed to work at a school for instance.
It’s a good thing the court of public opinion still has a voice and doesn’t approve of child rapists quite so heartily as the Dutch government. What “time” did he do - like 11months? And he was never remorseful in the slightest. If his only real punishment is going to be him and his country getting booed by the world at the Olympics, I’m happy there’s at least that.
It’s simple really.
His judgement, sentencing and punishment satisfy the needs of the law. the law has done it’s part (arguably terribly in this case) and is at rest.
This is vastly different than the judgement bright forth by the court of public opinion. They are not so forgiving.
Perhaps that’s something the dude should have thought about before doing what he did
I’m on the fence on that. He raped a minor which is not excusable, he possibly ruined her life. How can a person like that be redeemed? Or does he not deserve redemption? He was 19. When I was 19, I was an irresponsible child. There is no proof that he is a pedophile.
If you go by medical definition, that would be hebephilia. Pedophilia is only used with children younger than 11.
The reason in this case could also have been because she was an easy target, the age must not necessarily be the reason.
Repeatedly telling people he’s not technically a pedophile is really not in any way helpful. He raped a 12-year-old multiple times. Who is it hurting to call him a pedophile?
I was stupid at 19 too, but for me that meant letting my at-the-time boyfriend finish inside even though I didn’t know him nearly well enough. Turned out he was slutting out it with randos and never got tested before our relationship. That’s around the stupid I expect at 19.
Rape is a bit fucking beyond that, don’t you think?
Bro she was like 12. I was also an irresponsible child at 19, but I wasn’t raping 12 year olds, nor did it cross my mind.
Playing devil’s advocate on pedophilia is not it.
Dunno about you, but when I was 19 the thought of raping a child never crossed my mind. He’s spent less than a year in prison, and hasn’t repented for what he did. Redemption has to at the very least come with an understanding that what he did was wrong.
Edit: slightly more than a year; 13 months
He groomed the child for YEARS before he raped her. It’s wild you’re defending this
Edit: I can’t find the article I thought I read about him first meeting the child when they were 10
He’s spent more than a year in prison.
Also, we can’t take his words for gospel, but atleast he acts as if he’s repented:
“I can’t reverse it, so I have to carry the consequences. It’s the biggest mistake of my life.”
Yes, a whole 13 months. What a punishment for raping a 12-year-old girl over and over.
And that isn’t repenting. Repenting includes an apology for what he did.
Hi, friend. I’m sure you have well-meaning intentions by making this comment. As someone who was a survivor of a similar situation such as this, and who also grew into a 19 year old, I can tell you that from a non-clinical perspective, if you are attracted to a child of early puberty age as a 19 year old adult, I don’t think making this assumption is too far off the table. I’m sick and tired of coming on here and listening to this discourse about this volleyball player. Thank you for your two sides to every story, attempt at nuance and empathy for a rapist here. As a survivor of CSA, this has never been granted to me or anyone else I know of that has survived something like this. We need a different reaction to people who do these acts to innocent children.
Every time a rapist is sad or something bad happens to them, I smile. The worse the event, the happier I am. Death should be their only release from torture. I accept no less and grant no pity, no matter how bad it gets for them.
And it goes double for Trump.
I agree with your sentiment, but nobody deserves torture, no matter how terrible they are or what they’ve done. I can totally accept an argument that society is better without some people in it, but torture isn’t good for anyone, ever, and we should never, ever endorse its use, even when speaking figuratively.
If our goal is to minimize suffering for everyone, intentionally inflicting needless suffering on others is antithetical to that goal, and makes us no better than those we oppose.
Fucking finally. Price of shit rapist. Maybe the Dutch will reform their legal system in-time for the next Olympics?
Im not sure if any legal system would say a felon cant join the olympics. Unless you mean having draconian punishments like the US. Then no, I hope they dont damage their legal system to become that corrupt.
He got 13 months for rape and only one of those months was actually their choice the other 12 was the UK government’s choice. Essentially they thought that one month of imprisonment for rape was acceptable.
They clearly need some change.
The Dutch need a metric fuckton of cultural reform. I’m saying this as a descendant of them in Canada.
Blackface is not an acceptable holiday tradition, and marzipan is concentrated evil. Also fuuuuuuuuck rapists, you get nothing, you fucking LOSE, and you goddamn keep losing as an example to any other idiots, good day sir!
What was their reasoning for not punishing the guy? I haven’t heard about that yet. And frankly a year for rape also sounds anomalous
I think having a child rapist not be in the Olympics isn’t draconian. The Dutch sound a little too lax with their “formication” laws
How is there no mechanism to remove him? I mean, ideally he shouldn’t have been selected in the first place but under the insanely charitable assumption that it was sloppiness and not active negligence that recruited him.
On what grounds would he be removed though? Is there a reason countries shouldn’t select athletes that have been to prison?
The fact that he’s a fucking child rapist. No need to be an apologist for the pedophile, he’s a shit person and it’s ok to call him that.
Yeah but that’s not really what my question was about.
Why shouldn’t the Dutch delegation select him? And what rules would prevent a selection of any convicted criminal?
Or are we talking about the IOC specifically banning people convicted of child rape offences?
All Olympic athletes sign a declaration saying they’ll strive to be a role model or something similar. I’d say a convicted rapist shouldn’t be considered a role model and therefore shouldn’t be allowed to compete.
I get your point, but a convicted criminal who is rehabilitated could also be considered a good role model. Not saying he is, but not really a means to disqualify him.
On the grounds that the Olympic Games is mostly a propaganda event and he’s absolutely terrible propaganda?
It’s not the Olympic organizers’ job to disqualify someone based on how immoral, criminal, of poor character or despicable a person is (on who’s laws anyway?). This is a major failure on the country’s olympic committee selecting these people to represent themselves to the world.
Yet they’re more than happy to disqualify and otherwise exclude people based on their biology. Curious… 🤔
On the one hand that’s supposedly to do with competitive advantage. It makes sense to try to even the playing field, which should have nothing to do with objection on ‘moral’grounds. I’d argue this is mostly a good thing given the iffiness of many groups’ morals.
Case in point, your exact examples, which brings me to the other hand. Banning trans athletes on ‘fairness’ grounds is bullshit. In most sports there’s no known competitive advantage. Where there’s an imbalance they tend to show disadvantage. The rare cases with an advantage for trans athletes tend to disappear the moment you correct for size/weight, which is not something we’d exclude cis athletes for. None of your examples should have happened. They do not hold water on fairness grounds, and any moralistic reasons behind it are reprehensible.
Obviously it’s a murky subject on the topic of intersex and transgender athletes participating in the ladies’ competition. However on the whole, the focus is on matters related to achieving a fair competition to a sport rather than someone’s morality. The IOC, with consultation from a multitude of countries, dropped many of the testosterone and sex testing criteria for this year, where before the 2016 olympics, trans and intersex athletes were barred completely without genital surgery.
Sure, but how did they end up selecting him and why can’t they recall him?
Isn’t volleyball a team sport? How are his teammates okay with being on a team with a child molester? How are his opponents okay with playing in a game against him? Even if there’s no official mechanism, couldn’t all the players just be like “Nah, fuck that, he goes or I do”. The only time I’ve every knowingly ran into one I couldn’t have been civil towards them if I wanted to let alone actually work together on something.
