“It’s NOT a gun control issue, it’s a mental health issue!”
“Then we’re expanding access to mental healthcare?”
“Fuck no, that’s SOCIALISM and psychiatry is bullshit anyway!”
It’s frustrating because I believe it’s a mental health issue primarily. But god forbid we actually help people deal with their trauma and pain.
It can be both! And a problem with bullying in schools. And lack of ways to escape poverty. But having any changes that affect any of those things is verboten to the places where land gets more of a vote than people in cities do.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m for gun control. I just believe that if we lived in some utopia with zero mental health issues, it wouldn’t be an issue regardless.
It’s not even a mental health issue either, ultimately! The traumas that result in mental health issues themselves have a cause, which tends to boil down to systemic inequity of some form or another. And our rulers not only have fuck-all interest in fixing that, but also a vested interest in actively perpetuating it.
I definitely feel some kind of way about this because dead children seems to be the primary issue from an outside perspective and ending easy access to weapons would be the single most effective way to fix that.
but without proper mental healthcare these people will then just have a knife party and take slightly less people with them … so there’s also that.
Or a car or a bomb…guns are just the tool being used currently.
The systematic issues our society faces are the root cause and until we resolve those, this will continue to happen.
“Fuck no, that’s SOCIALISM and psychiatry is bullshit anyway!”
I’m sure I’m not alone in thinking that people who think/say this, have mental health issues. We are lost.
Education is everything, that’s why they love to go after it. They don’t want free thinkers but indoctrinated clones of themselves.
For those who haven’t heard, yes, there was another school shooting, this time a highschool in Georgia (United States, obviously). 2 students and 2 teachers were killed, nine people injured, and the suspect is in custody. (How they’re not dead is beyond me)
I’ve gotten so used to school shootings that I see one like that and think “hooray, only four deaths!”
Unfortunately it did work out better than others, and yet two teachers and two 14 year old children were killed.
The FBI had been out to see the 14yr old who murdered classmates and teachers. Spoken with his parents, and him. He denied everything, no probable cause, so they put the schools on alert, and that made for a quicker response.
Which means this went really well by comparison to other school shootings, and yet it clearly wasn’t good enough - two 14 year old students and two teachera died.
The FBI had been out to see the 14yr old who murdered classmates and teachers. Spoken with his parents, and him. He denied everything, no probable cause, so they put the schools on alert, and that made for a quicker response.
Oh, so we knew this kid was a problem but we didn’t actually do anything but tell the school to be ready to get shot up.
What a fucking stupid country.
Yeah I was watching something on TV and they cut to a special news report to cover this. I was shocked. Isn’t there a school shooting pretty much every day now? Why did this warrant cutting into valuable day time TV programming? So I’m watching this breaking news wondering what’s so special about this particular shooting that can’t wait until the nightly news at 10:00, and the local police chief is giving a press conference breaking down in tears about how he never thought he would have to handle a school shooting and I’m like has your dimbass been paying attention to anything that’s been going on in this country for the last few decades? I would expect you to have a manual on your desk with procedures on how to handle this. Instead this yokel is rambling on about good and evil. I just smh.
Not quite daily, but yeah there have been a lot
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States_(2000–present)
It’s a little less than once per week, on average. School shootings are much more rare. Wikipedia has the list, but it makes me too depressed to go through and tally it up to get the average.
Considering there are tens of thousands of schools across the US, most cops will never have to deal with a mass shooting, much less a school shooting.
No there isn’t, the media and gun control groups love to act like there is. The reality is much more nuanced than guns bad. Ban them and all this magically stops
As non American I wonder. There was a crime committed, police couldn’t do anything to prevent it, it’s not the first or the tenth such crime, obviously it will happen again. Will anyone do something about it? Or the government(the entity made to prevent such things) answer is just “till next time boys”?
My opinion is that these shootings are a greater failure in this country than simply gun control. There is a LOT we need to work on to decrease mass shootings. While I admit, I am more on the personal responsibility side of the gun control debate, I am not against well thought through legislation. I don’t think that most of the proposals for gun control are rational, detailed, and written with an even cursory understanding of firearms.
To start to address mass shootings, I believe that we need to expand our healthcare in this country. Both physical and mental healthcare. If people are physically well, and can get treatment that doesn’t threaten to bankrupt them, then they will have more opportunities to develop better coping mechanisms. They will be able to seek healthcare options and not feel like they are left to fend for themselves. The isolation from a society that doesn’t care or help them is detrimental, and while I have no studies to back it up, I would think that a society with a healthcare system thats prerogative is the patient instead of profit would help.
I think the aspect of mental healthcare speaks for itself. So people don’t lash out and can seek other means of dealing with issues. I also believe that the stigma of seeking mental healthcare and it’s ability to impact people’s rights and job prospects is a hindrance. We should not make it so that if someone seems help, that they are punished for it.
I believe we have a big culture shift that needs to occur. Too much do we use rhetoric that reinforces that firearms and gun violence is the ultimate solution to a disagreement. “Fuck around and find out” when used in the context of firearms is terrible. Firearms should be considered the last resort to protect life. Not property and not your feelings.
Firearms are not conflict resolution! We need to work to give people better ways of solving and deescalating conflicts.
We need to work on our wealth disparity. We should be elevating our poorest so that they don’t have to resort to violence or crime. As most firearm crimes are not mass shootings, we need to address the other parts of firearm use.
We need to work on our community involvement. Bring people together, break down the walls between us, and get past the cliques.
There is a lot we need to do, but gun control is only a small piece of solving gun violence.
Addition:
Stop the 24 hour news cycle and please please please stop naming criminals by name and showing their faces. Delete the “claim to fame” angle that comes with horrible crimes.
For community involvement, what comes to mind for me is: walkable neighbourhoods, libraries even in small towns and local sports clubs.
But there must be a minimum of gun laws: Buying, owning, operating only under license, storage at home in a safe and ammunition in a separate safe. That’s really the bare minimum.
Regarding the news cycle. Yes! Stop the 24 hour, constant fear being fed to the populace.
You are remarkably safe in your own home. Get rid of the fear mongering!
Stop making national news of local issues. The constant national attention to some random horrible things that doesn’t affect 99.99% of the viewership doesn’t need to be highlighted.
I’m not against gun laws, but I’m going to disagree with your minimums. Anything regarding storage is essentially unenforceable until after a tragedy has occurred. It can’t be used to preempt a shooting but only to punish the owners afterwards. Those sort of things need to be community driven. The gun community should be talking about storage more and shaming those that don’t follow it.
It also implies that everyone’s situation at home allows them 1) to purchase two safes and 2) to have room for two safes and 3) limits their ownership of either guns or ammo to the size of that safe. It also doesn’t make much sense to have two safes if the person doing the shooting is the one that is buying the ammo and guns in the first place. It also places undue burdens on those that do not have children and do not have children that come into their home.
As much as it is laughed at in California, but when you buy a gun you either need to bring a lock or buy a lock with it. They are the cheapest things, but it’s at least a minimum safety that isn’t onerous. Even if no one uses them once they get the gun home.
As for operating under a license, what would that do beyond the existing restrictions for procuring firearms? Do they expire and what would happen then?
We need comprehensive laws grounded in addressing specific issues, not something to create an idealistic and narrow view of what gun ownership is or should be.
I think we should have federal programs on gun information and educational programs. We can teach people and build a culture on gun safety and storage. Maybe programs to subsidize the purchasing of safes and reimburse or reward owners that make safe choices.
Anything regarding storage is essentially unenforceable until after a tragedy has occurred.
One could require a receipt or proof of purchase for a safe or a lock when buying a gun.
It also implies that everyone’s situation at home allows them 1) to purchase two safes and 2) to have room for two safes and 3) limits their ownership of either guns or ammo to the size of that safe.
That’s intentional.
It also doesn’t make much sense to have two safes if the person doing the shooting is the one that is buying the ammo and guns in the first place.
We need comprehensive laws grounded in addressing specific issues
I was specifically addressing teenagers access to their parents guns, specifically to prevent school shootings.
As for operating under a license, what would that do beyond the existing restrictions for procuring firearms? Do they expire and what would happen then?
Like a car license. You may not be checked all the time, but every once in a while and it’s a crime to not have it if you’re driving.
Why are you against holding people accountable for their mistakes legally? Are you really arguing this needs such a soft touch as kind words suggesting people take gun safety seriously?
Is this some sort of system of thought where you craft rules set around yourself as the “ideal gun owner”?
Go ahead and try and re-explain this: “It can’t be used to preempt a shooting but only to punish the owners afterwards.” How is punishing bad behavior a bad thing again? When someone is killed by an improperly stored gun, oftentimes family members, we should make sure we are extra nice to the person who made the oopsie?
Oopsie! Sorry nephew, you just were meant to meet god sooner than most, right? Better keep treating guns like a broom or a mop we leave lieing in the corner.
The news problem is a generational thing. Younger generations overwhelmingly avoid those types of media, and when they do watch it often find the arguments hollow and sensational. Better media literacy likely.
As long as people are alive that watch it, and as long as news is considered entertainment instead of truth, it will keep happening. Best bet is to just turn it off.
universal healthcare and basic income, paid with increase in the top 1%'s marginal tax rate, would solve a LOT of Americans problems.
Fear of losing basic income is a great crime deterrent.
Are you going to steal from that gas station if you could lose your basic monthly check for 20+ years?
You think kids would drive drunk if you told them that if they were caught, they would lose their basic income for life? Most think it’s a slap on the wrist, maybe some community service, IF they get caught.
damn, now THAT’S a deterrent! Capital punishment? pfft. Losing your monthly living stipend? real shit.
So we just need to solve all depressive disorders, schizophrenia, bipolar disorders, etc., across the entire country. Only then can we solve gun violence.
In the vast majority of instances, having a gun in the home is more dangerous for those living in the house than for any potential threat. Its irresponsible at best and at worst it will cause the deaths of those closest to you.
And before you say it, I do believe some people need guns, but you should be required to have a valid reason to own one, and it should be appropriate amount of firepower for that reason.
To “solve” gun violence, yea. But to significantly reduce it, we only need to make progress.
It was sort of meant to be rhetorical.
Even if I agreed with you, gun control has been proven to work across the world, while not a single country has yet to solve mental health in a meaningful way.
I don’t think anyone is saying that those need to be solved before we can attempt to solve gun violence.
But there is a definite mental health crisis in the USA, and that’s certainly not helping our gun violence issue.
That and abject, perpetual, and generational poverty.
And I’m sure the latter contributes to the former.
There is a lot we need to do, but gun control is only a small piece of solving gun violence.
Weird how other countries haven’t solved these “other issues”, yet have managed to curb gun violence.
“No way to prevent this, says only country in the world where this regularly happens”
Gun control works on gun violence as surely as antibiotics do on infections. Now can proper hygiene and a healthy populace make it so there’s less need for antibiotics? Yes. But are they still extremely necessary exactly because of how well they work in bacterial infections? Yes.
Gun nuts never have any science to back up their indirect nra propaganda. Gun control advocates do. Here.
https://epirev.oxfordjournals.org/content/38/1/140.full.pdf+html . https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/
I’ll stay here to wait for any science at all, but it will never come. What I will get is angry gun nuts using shitty “rhetoric” instead of having a single peer reviewed study.
I never said there was “no way to prevent this” I’m saying there is a fucking shitload we need to do to prevent this and gun control, in whatever form it takes is going to be only a piece of the puzzle.
And no shit, does getting rid of guns get rid of guns violence. You aren’t spouting something revolutionary.
I’m not even against gun control. I’m against the knee jerk reactionary bullshit and narrow viewpoint of anti-gun individuals that don’t want to engage in any serious discussion of HOW to enact gun control other than take away guns.
I’m not a gun nut, and that’s just a rude thing to say. It’s divisive, insulting, and worst of all, it means you’ve already made an opinion and written off anything that I may say.
I’m tired of people pretending they’re for gun regulation while they’re pretending “it’s only a small part of the puzzle”.
Like honestly, you feel gobsmacked in how you can have such high gun violence rates with similar mental health issues as countries which do have proper gun control and for some reason don’t the issues that the US does.
It’s purely about gun regulation ffs. Oh no, am I being insulting to someone who doesn’t think gun control would really help. Someone who pretends mental health program would do more.
Fucking ridiculous man.
Yeah as close as this country is to civil war, anyone coming for guns will be met with the wrong end of said guns. It would create all out war here.
There are more guns than people in this country, I don’t see any way to reverse that statistic without further, much more massive and widespread bloodshed.
Other countries are like “we don’t have guns its the obvious solution”. Sure. But your entire culture isn’t predicated on the idea things like gun ownership is considered an inalienable right that can and should be defended with said guns.
I’m all for making things better but I don’t see guaranteed civil war as the best choice here.
Can you imagine nukes being considered a conflict resolution?
Technically, they are.
Dark as fuck… but sadly too real
The Beaverton put together a nice, fill in the blank for mass shootings.
https://www.thebeaverton.com/2015/10/mass-shooting-in-usa-kills/
Edit: Added the Beaverton article
__________, USA — Up to ___ people were killed and ____ more injured after a gunman opened fire at a ________.
There were conflicting reports about casualties, but _______ from _______County Sheriff Department said the number is at __.
“I heard a popping sound and screaming,” said _________, a _________ at the __________. “And that’s when we all got down. There was ______ everywhere.”
The shooter’s motive was reported to be ________________.
Citizens of _______ were ______ and ______ to hear that something like this could happen in their community.
President _______ and Governor _______ had their _______ and _______ with the victims and their families.
____________________________________________________ gun control ___________________.
The NRA released a statement stating it __________with the victims, but _________ Second Amendment rights and _______________.
This is the saddest meme I’ve seen in recent memory, if only because of its accuracy
Madlibs version, fill in the blanks with your own phrases and post:
1. Noun
2. Number
3. Number
4. Noun
5. Noun
6. Noun
6a. Number from 2
7. Name
8. Verb
9. Noun from 4
10. Noun
11. Greivance
12. Noun from 6
13. Emotion
14. Emotion
15. Noun
16. Noun
17. Noun
18. Noun
Alright I finally had time to sit down and do it, and I realized in my earlier haste I made a few mistakes. Here it is corrected and madlibbed out in all its glory:
Hell, USA — Up to 69 people were killed and _another 420 more injured after a gunman opened fire at a Pepperidge Farm.
There were conflicting reports about casualties, but Booger from Weiner County Sheriff Department said the number is at 69.
“I heard a popping sound and screaming,” said Scooby Doo, a Fart at the Pepperidge Farm. “And that’s when we all got down. There was Butts everywhere.”
The shooter’s motive was reported to be His penis fell off.
Citizens of Weiner were Angry and Horny to hear that something like this could happen in their community.
President Dog Poo and Governor Balls had their Lunch and Snakes with the victims and their families.
