Hate agreeing with a troll, but here we are stomping through a field of broken clocks.
Ozma is anything but a troll. They’re highly consistent in their political beliefs, and generally knows the topics they post about. Not everyone you disagree with is a troll or a foreign agent.
Who said anything about foreign agents? But you do seem to have a sense of my objections to their agenda. Anyone who posts so prolifically will at any rate have thick enough skin to tolerate being misunderstood.
Uh… A troll is someone who goes on the internet to piss off people and farm downvotes. Not people you generally expect knowledge and consistency from.
This morning I could hardly find a headline to confirm Israel invaded Lebanon. Everything was about how scary Iran is.
What the fucking fuckery fuck media? How is Iran’s response to Israel’s invasion more important than Israel invading? I shouldn’t have to dig for 20 minutes to confirm something like that.
I saw plenty of headlines about the invasion of Lebanon. It just happened first, so the newer headlines would be about the thing that just happened
These things happened hours apart. And many of the stubs behind the Iran headlines made no mention of why they would fire missiles at Israel. After today I won’t be surprised when we start getting people in here who think Iran fired for no reason and Israel hasn’t invaded Lebanon. It was an absolute failure of news media.
I’m not defending the media by any stretch, just that both events got some coverage.
to be clear, the iran government is basically oil backed terrorism and human rights abuses. Yeah fuck iran.
I wouldn’t trust a single thing iran says.
I’ll take one shitty liberal democracy before I take five shitty far-right religious dictatorships.
I don’t think innocent people deserve to die just because they happen to not live in a liberal democracy. It’s not like it’s their choice, anyway, but even people who support their country’s regime don’t deserve to be killed for it.
Nobody thinks innocent people deserve to die, that’s what innocent means. Don’t have to deserve it to be killed incidentally, which is inevitable in war, and yet war can still be just.
As an aside, these are not distant, national, state-actor regimes. They are hyper-local partisans, non-state actors who are classified by most of the western world as terrorist organizations, doing things that most of the western world, including the ICJ, considers to be criminal: shooting 1,000 rockets a month as Israeli civilians.
Except you literally think that though. You just wrap it around some BS like “war is baaaad” or “hamas is baaaaad”.
So I guess if war is bad and everything is allowed, the take your example further and say that killing Israeli civilians is “tragic but war is war”.
Don’t spit on my cupcake and tell me it’s frosting.
A rabidly racist Appartheid State founded on 19th century white colonialist values which it has preserved and even strengthened ever since isn’t a Liberal Democracy, quite the contrary.
A Racism so institutionalized that it’s written down on the Constitution isn’t Liberalism and denying the vote to the millions who used to live there (and some who still do) by denyng them citizenship isn’t Democracy.
Shitty liberal democracy isnt a strong enough indictment of what is going on in Israel right now. Theyre well on their way to being another far right dictatorship.
They will have another election soon and can popularly reverse course, right?
I would say that, as people go, as the long arc of history bends slowly toward truth and justice, as human rights are hard won and hard kept, Israel is a diamond in the rough. I’m reminded of the words of Marquis de Lafayette, a rich French kid who joined the military at age 13, on the eve of the American Revolutionary War, which he volunteered to come over and fight, when he said “the good fortune of America is closely tied to the good fortune of all humanity.”
At that time, obviously America still had a thriving slave trade; it wasn’t about what America was right then, but what the idea of it could be, what the ideals of representative democracy could do for human kind.
Realize how crazy of an idea it is, how astonishing it is that in any place in any time, it came to be that there were no kings and the people chose their leaders? Prior to that, the law was literally “the king can do no wrong.”
To even break free of the mental shackles of that kind of dark-ages governing took modern mankind hundreds and hundreds of years, spark to flame, and has been widely regarded as a great idea, having secured real civil and human rights to billions of people. How I see it anyway.
They will have another election soon and can popularly reverse course, right?
In this particular war? Hopefully. There’s a good chance they’ll just get someone more competent to lead it, but I won’t deny that there’s also a significant possibility they’ll call off the whole thing out, which has been disastrous for Israel. But, I don’t see any significant social current calling for peace with Palestine in Israel. Israelis have been feeling many things since the start of the war, but remorse towards their treatment of Palestinians before and after the war is not one of them. So… yeah, not getting my hopes up.
So we should excuse israel because progress is hard? You don’t happen to work in sales or marketing do you?
Israel isn’t a “liberal democracy”, shitty or not. It’s a fascist apartheid state. Please wake the fuck up.
Apartheid. Give me a break.
I remember apartheid. The minority race didn’t let the majority race vote, citizens of the same country. That was what turned the world against South Africa, made Apartheid a crime against humanity.
Israel is an apartheid state because they don’t let people from terra nullius vote in their elections? Okay buddy.
I think you’ll find that actual experts, including the UN and Nobel peace prize laureate and Apartheid survivor Desmond Tutu disagree(d) with whether or not Israel is an Apartheid state and whether voting rights was the main problem in Apartheid South Africa 🤦
Israel is an Apartheid state because it by law gives full rights to Ashkenazi Jews while treating Mizrahim and the Palestinians in the occupied territories (which are effectively under Israeli control) as second class citizens and nonhumans, respectively.
also the others wouldn’t have been dictatorships if the west didn’t constantly fuck with their shit, create instability and power vacuums.
Imagine feeling the urge to back either side of this thousand-year conflict and also screaming about your moral superiority in doing so.
Stop supporting monsters.
🤡
Please provide references and evidence of conflict spanning back a thousand years. The conflict started after the Ottoman Empire collapsed and the region got divided up in a colonial experiment by the French and British.
Huh? The conflict is at least as old as 1834 (Ottoman empire fell in 1922) and they’ve been trading blows since well before that.
“waaa the consequences of my actions!”
