Please never defederate commies! It’s hilarious! 😆
Quite refreshing to see extreme right-wing fuming over actual extreme left-wing, instead of the moderate left-wing they are used to.
I’m south african. My government has the means of production for electricity seized (they own Eskom which has a monopoly.) It is well known that while the regular person has to deal with load shedding, the government officials do not
Add the issues with South African Airways and I would not like all the means of production to be owned by the government
Trust me, you don’t want those amenities in the hands of unelected greedy business men either.
Load shedding is still better than not having any electricity at all because it isn’t profitable enough to manage the power net in your region.
You live in a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie, i.e. a liberal democracy where the bourgeoisie (owners of the means of production) dictate the laws.
State owned companies work for the interests of the ruling class, in this case the bourgeoisie, so you can bet it is subsidized by the people and the ruling class (and their businesses) benefit off it. (Socializing losses and privatizing profits)
If it was owned by say Elon Musk, it wouldn’t be any different for the regular working class people. Only the relations between the bourgeoisie may change.
Owned by the government is specifically NOT “owned by the workers”. That is definitionally not socialism, and it’s not communism either.
I seriously hate how no one even knows what socialism or real communism is… Only in stupid authoritarian “communism” like China do you have the government own much of anything directly. Hell, in proper Communism, there’s not supposed to be much of a government at all. Nothing like the giant armies of beurocrats and politicians most places have today, anyways.
How workers would own the means of production in socialism/communism without the government?
That’s kind of the point of most people who don’t think communism can function in current society, the government represents the people, right? So “the people” owning the means of production just becomes “the government” owning the means of production.
Which is why all “communist” states that have ever existed function identically to their fascist counterparts, because regardless of what you call it, the state owns everything.
That is because most people literally lack the imagination. Literally incapable of understanding. Extreme communism doesn’t even have personal property or a main government, so to fail to see anything other than government ownership is a big tell on ignorance. Yes, most people are ignorant, and those in charge LOVE that fact.
People expressing opposition to the military industrial complex get called tankies these days.
Well that’s just a complete and utter misuse of the term, then. Possibly an effort by tankies to remove meaning from the label.
A tankie is a fake “leftist” who idolizes leftist policies and ideals, but does it via worship of the past efforts, like the USSR, or even specific “socialists” or “communists” like Lenin and so many other horrible dictators… in so doing, they completely and utterly fail to live a single leftist ideal and in reality end up idolizing fascists and authoritarians like Mao. This makes them functionally identical to fascists whilst they claim leftist motives.
Tankies realize leftist ideas are good, but utterly and completely fail to connect wishes with meaningful action, thus want some power figure to do it for them. They’re too stupid, ball-less, and self-centered to realize the actions they want to take are at best representative democracies, and at worst fascist dictatorships.
Tankies are wonderful to learn to properly identify, because it makes it sooo much easier to discard them and look for real leftists instead of idiots who use the same words.
Is this a memes community? Or a soviet shit hole? I escaped reddit because it was shit and the ultra gatekeeping communists shitfaces, I hate to leave lemmy because of this as well, not many capitalists around this site -_-
I’m genuinely curious - what do you think communism is? There’s been a lot of definitions over the years and a lot of confusion over the subject, so I’m really interested to hear what do people such as yourself think communism really is that makes them hostile to the idea.
You’re not genuinely curious. You are looking for the person’s view point so you can dismiss, ridicule and rebuff it with some half assed bullshit commie revisionism propaganda.
That’s what you lot do, you lie and take advantage of the disadvantaged. That is the REALITY of what Communism is. I don’t give two shits about your 1st year political science student’s view of Das Kapital.
It’s had over 100 years to prove it doesn’t lead to authoritarianism, brutality and oppression. And it has proved the opposite every fucking time.
Completely unnecessary and hostile reaction ☹️
Different cultures, education, experiences and upbringings lead people to have different interpretations of and feelings towards various ideologies. IMO It is only fair for OC to establish the definition first, rather than unknowingly discuss something completely different with the other user.
Responses like this are why a shit ton of users on these platforms do your username and don’t interact with anything
It was a genuine question, but if I’ve struck a nerve with that somewhere, then I’m sorry.
I’m deeply sorry that we don’t like supporting the oppression of marginalized groups here
Oppressing people is like 90% of what Communists do. The other 10% is lying about everything.
Yes, as if communism doesnt support opressing literally everyone, you western “communists” are really special aren’t ya?
How do you oppress everyone in an economic model focused on worker enfranchisement?
…or do you not know what communism means and just belive China, the USSR and DPRK when they say they’re communist?
Hey Hexbear, if you’re dropping by, let me know when Russian and Chinese workers seize the means of production.
In the meantime I’m sitting here oppressed in Norway.
… You realize Norway is one of the examples we use of a successful socialist state right?
… You do realize we hear most internet communists we come across argue that we’d be so much better if we were run like Russian or China?
Those guys are idiots.
Best solution for Norway is to continue exporting undesirable labor like they’ve been doing, until the oil runs out, out demand dries up. Not sure what you’ll do then but you won’t be alone anyway.
It’s not best for everyone, by any means. But it’s best for Norway.
Bruh, we have oppressed people in Norway. Did you forget that our own supreme court ruled that some of our wind mills at Fosen are in violation of UN law of civil and political rights (source in Norwegian). That was two years ago and they are still standing, which is especially bad due to the historical repression and attempts at ethnic cleansing of Sámi people in Norway, that was going on for a disturbingly long time. Now, as a quick caveat I will add that on a global scale we are doing pretty alright. However, that you are fortunate and well, for which I am glad, does not mean that the sentiment of the meme is wrong. Since the 70s much of the good systems we built have been demolished by laissez-faire politics and politicians, like your beloved “Jern-Erna”, lowering corporate taxes and allowing for privatization of public services (our railway system, healthcare and so on). I also don’t think many people from Hexbear are deluded enough to believe in imminent revolution in Russia nor conflating the Russian government with the Communist Party of China (though I might suspect you do), making your comment either worthless or in bad faith (we both know it is both). Either way, I support seizing the means of production and voted for my convictions today. Even though I believe I probably fundamentally disagree with you, I hope you did too. Leave the “all communists are tankie fascists” idea at home please. It only makes you look ignorant and a bad representative for our nice little country.
Not a commie, but didn’t the Norwegian people nationalize the oil production, leasing it out to companies while keeping a huge share of the profit for the welfare of common Norwegians?
My understanding is that, in a sense, that is exactly what seizing the means of production is about.
That sounds to me more like a merger of corporation and state.
Nope. The people making these policies laid the plans for nationalizing the natural resources of Norway while in German concentration camps, where they were sent precisely because they were socialists. They are the primary reason, along with the discovery of oil and gas, for Norway being one of the richest countries on earth per capita. That the extraction of natural resources is under democratic control and under a somewhat high taxation scheme is not evidence of a fascist state-corp merger, but something that should be the default in all countries around the world to combat imperialist capital interests (except that the taxes should be even higher).
Controlling the natural resources a country and leasing it out it private companies is pretty standard practice in most non corrupt countries. Norway probably differs in that they capture more of the economic rent in part due to a more efficient tax and a share of public ownership.
Not hexbear but aren’t you Norwegians an oppressive oil state? You guys were bombing brown people for fun a couple of years back. Isn’t Stoltenburg one of your guys? He just admitted to intentionally provoking the Russian invasion.
Oh look! A commie!
Say hi when you meet our little black sparrow-sized drones. All you have to do to earn a visit is mention how we fucked over the Sami, we really don’t like those things. Oh, and don’t insult Jern-Erna if she gets back in power, she’ll divebomb you and leave nothing but a crater. Say what you will about Støre, he’s a soggy twig.
