What’s going on in Denmark?
| # | 🇩🇰 |
|---|---|
| 1 | en |
| 2 | to |
| 3 | tre |
| 4 | fire |
| 5 | fem |
| 6 | seks |
| 7 | syv |
| 8 | otte |
| 9 | ni |
| 10 | ti |
| 11 | elleve |
| 12 | tolv |
| 13 | tretten |
| 14 | fjorten |
| 15 | femten |
| 16 | seksten |
| 17 | sytten |
| 18 | atten |
| 19 | nitten |
| 20 | tyve |
| 21 | enogtyve |
| 22 | toogtyve |
| 30 | tredive |
| 40 | fyrre |
| 50 | halvtreds |
| 60 | tres (threes) |
| 70 | halvfjerds (½fourths) |
| 80 | firs (fours) |
| 90 | halvfems (½fifths) |
| 92 | tooghalvfems (twoand½fifths) |
| 100 | hundred |
In Czech, we say „čtvrt na osm“ (quarter to eight), „půl osmé“ (half of eighth) and „tři čtvrtě na osm“ (¾ to eight) to mean 19:15, 19:30 and 19:45, respectively, so I kinda get it.
Similarly, in German, 🕢=„halb acht“.
Ja, ich spreche auch ziemlich gut Deutsch. Ich würde aber lieber die Angelsächser mit meiner Fähigkeit „čtvrt“ (tschtwrt) zu aussprechen beeindrucken.
Thats pretty common in terms of time. I’m not going to say something is “half five” to say it coststwo and a half dollars though. I understand that with French and Danish you arent actually doing the math and just think of that string the same way i think of “ninety two” but it’s still difficult to wrap my head around.
TIL that it not French with the weirdest way to count. I still don’t really get the Danish way. Even with your explanation.
It’s not really an explanation, just a table where I leave the linguistically inclined to figure it out. The point is, the “s” at the end is short for “×20” and “half fifth” is short for ●●●●◖ = 4½ (four and half of the fifth).
Funny enough, I grew up saying “quarter of eight” to mean 19:45. It took until my mid-20s to realize its probably a regional thing because, after I left Philadelphia (my home city) and moved to Chicago, everyone thought I meant 20:15.
Oh! In New England “quarter of” is 15 minutes before the hour (19:45) and “quarter after” is 15 minutes after the hour (20:15). That might explain why my colleagues in Alabama were surprised when I left a meeting at 9:45 when I had clearly warned them I had a hard stop at quarter of ten!
Interesting distinction none of us picked up on!
It’s base 20 like in France, plus the quirk that we have an ordinal numeral way of saying half integers, i.e. 1.5 is “half second”, 2.5 is “half third”, 4.5 is “half fifth”. So 92 is said as “two and half fifth times twenty”. We’ve since made the “times twenty” implicit for maximum confusion, so it’s just said as “two and half fifths”.
Also, the ordinal numeral system for halves is only really used for 1.5 these days, so the numbers don’t really make sense to anyone. When speaking to other Scandinavians, we often just say “nine ten two”.
Why don’t we just change it to the more sensible system then? Because language is stubborn.
30 (tredive) you cited seems to be the exception, as it’s not “halbtots” or something.
Indeed, fyrre (40) is also clearly related to four (or fourth), it only kicks in at 50.
You can recognize the numbers where this system is in place by the ‘s’ at the end, which is a remnant of the “-sindstyve” ending meaning “times twenty”.
If it worked for 30 and 40 they would be “halvandens” and “andens”.
Now imagine moving there as a foreigner from a normal country and someone telling you their phone number! It’s like having a micro stroke.
1.5 is “half second”, 2.5 is “half third”, 4.5 is “half fifth”
Interesting. Regionally, some Germans measure time like this, i.e. “half two” is 01:30 resp. 13:30. (Which is different from English, where people who say “half two” mean “half past two”.)
We’ve since made the “times twenty” implicit for maximum confusion, so it’s just said as “two and half fifths”.
I know very little about Danish, but I learned that Danes slur the middle of most words. So I suspect you actually pronounce even less of the word than you’d write…?
Because language is stubborn.
Belgian French gives me hope.
–
[Edited: Usage is not regional]
Regionally, some Germans measure time like this, i.e. “half two” is 01:30 resp. 13:30.
This isn’t regional nor “some”, I never met a German wo doesn’t. Sure, there is “13 o’clock 30” and both are valid but I’d say the default is still the half system.
When it comes to quarters, there are regional differences and it’s a common “ice breaker” or small talk topic when people from all over Germany come together.
For what it’s worth, the US doesn’t use imperial anymore. It’s “US Customary Units”. It’s mostly a mix of metric and units based on metric. The US uses volts, amps, watts, and seconds which are metric. The inch, by definition, is 25.4mm. I’m not sure how the US gallon (less volume than the Imperial gallon) is defined. Food content is given in calories and grams.
I’m also not sure how temperature is defined. Originally, temperature units were set so that fresh water boiled exactly 180 degrees above it’s freezing temperature. To avoid negative numbers, zero Fahrenheit was set to the freezing temperature of sea ice.
I’ve always found the Danish numbers intriguing. I understand the whole “halvfem-sinds-tyve”- thing and the other ones of similar origin but I can’t wrap my head around “elleve” and “tolv”. Do you remember the origin of those?
Not really, but they’re essentially the same as the German “elf” and “zwölf”, so we probably got them from the same place as them ;)
I have to admit, as a French myself I found relief in that discovery. And thank you very much for the explanation.
I was confused by the “2 and” at first, then I realize you put the smallest part of the whole number first. It makes perfectly sense if you count in base 20.
We also have an habit to count in base 12 and half 12 in France. Like “half a dozen” (6) or “one dozen and half” (18), but only for multiple of 6.
I will now say “quatre vingtaine et demie” instead of “quatre-vingt-dix” just to tease my fellow Belgians (who say “nonante” and “septante” instead of “soixante-dix” et “quatre-vingt-dix”)
EDIT: As a matter of fact, I will rather say “trois et demi-cinquième vingt” for 73 because it sounds better. Now I see it.
If I am correct, the 3rd 20 is everything between 60 and 79. The half-3rd 20 is everything between 70 and 79. So 7 and half-2nd 20 would be 37?
How would you say 40, 60 and 80 then ? 2nd 20, 3rd 20 and 4th 20?
So the Danish can do this bullshit with everyday numbers and it’s cool because language , but I mention that it’s 70 degrees outside and everyone starts arguing about metric?
Everything is arbitrary, I’m gonna go build a dresser in multiples of rabbit foot while you all figure something out.
Temperature in fahrenheit is just as arbitrary as celsius. Fahrenheit makes sense from the perspective of human experience while celsius is very relevant to water. It’s really handy if you live in a area with snowy winters. Celsius is standard all around the world, while Fahrenheit is used in a handful of places.
Are all German numbers like that?
No, it gets more confusing the more numbers you add. 34563 4+30 thousand +500 3+60
Ow my brain.
Also funny because I had assumed English got the numbering system from German.
You probably did, but then you did the sensible thing and (mostly) changed it around. You can read some 19th century novels and find stuff like “I am two and twenty years old”.
Mostly because it’s still the old order for the teens. 1616 could be read as sixteen hundred sixteen, right?
Yes, Germans say numbers like that. (It only applies to the tens tho)
Roughly translated you’d say two-and-ninety (without the minus, I just made those so it doesn’t look that cursed)
It’s mainly because at least in German it flows better than ninety two would. There have been pushes to accept ninety two as well but acceptance has been and continues to be scarce.
Man I’d love for that to catch on, mostly so it’s easier to learn. Kids get confused by the order all the time. It’s even shorter in some cases.
Also, the reverse order makes dictating phone numbers such a pain.
My kids grow up with multiple languages. I told my daughter early on not to bother with German numbers larger than 20, and to select a different language to do math in her head.
For a few years she was just saying larger German numbers like 9-2, or was writing them down, though now at 7 she seems to get better at converting them correctly.
some (very few, i think it’s only the “teens”) english numbers are like that, like seventeen (7+10) for example
Of course, why would 92 be an exception? (Only numbers with a thousand-group ending in 21-99 do that, though)
Czechia should also be a combination of both 90+2 and 2+90
Ahoj! We’re like ⅞ „devadesát dva“ and ⅛ „dvaadevadesát“. Some numbers have it higher (25 is closest to ½/½) but we use inverse reading quite rarely overall.
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🇬🇧 ninety
🇫🇷 quatre-vingts-dix
🇩🇰 HALVFEMS
Impressive that Norway has bands of different ways to say 92!
Old people tend to say 2+90 while young people say 90+2. I heard that this new way of saying it was due to the introduction of the telephone, where people needed a more linear way of saying the numbers to reduce confusion. But I don’t have a source.
