It is more like they’re building more concentration camps and we are voting whether there should be a “in this house” lawnsign out front of each one.

At some point you have to realize that voting within capitalist psuedo-democracy will not get you the results you want, if you care about stopping the construction of the concentration camps.

At some point, you have to realize that the working class is only going to save itself from encroaching fascism by banding together, and not by voting between candidates that will never be allowed to represent our interests.

I’m sympathetic to the idea that Kamala Harris will be better in some ways than Trump, but I dont care enough to really bother examining all sides of the argument, because fascism is a structural issue that will not be resolved through sham elections where people only get options approved by the Capitalist class.

The capitalist class will lead us to fascism if they are not stopped. That is the long and short of it.

If you care about stopping fascism- if you’re willing to put blood sweat and tears into preventing it from happening in the US- you have to join a socialist org and work towards defeating capitalism. Our oppressors will not grant us freedom through their ballot box.

I admit I’m ignorant on the issue, and you seem to know: what are some examples of socialist organizations being the main force in stopping fascism?

The vast majority of antifascist partisans in Nazi-occupied countries were socialists. We actually organize and fight while liberals create the conditions for movements like fascism.

For example, the partisans in what became Yugoslavia took back their country through their militant organizing.

Though we should not forget the antifascist force that defeated the Nazis and gave those partisans more room to operate: The Soviet Union. While Western liberal powers were sitting back hoping for the Nazis to take out Eastern Eurooe, the USSR was rapidly developing its infrastructure and productive capacity so that could fight an existential war against the fascists.

And what about the cases of socialist fascism?

That isn’t a thing. Those words don’t make sense together.

Fascism was a specific development in countries, specifically Germany and Italy, that wanted to become imperial powers as a new set of post-WWI great capitalist powers had basically carved the world up into pieces for themselves to plunder and had left out both. The fascists built on the prevailing conditions in those countries.

German and Italian liberals could only offer the same degrading conditions available to imperialized countries. Instead of being the vampires getting fat off the blood of others, they were trying to navigate the country as a blood-bags.

Socialists understood this and organized against it, but this, of course, threatened capital. Socialists would organize and take over exploitative factories, neighborhoods, municipalities, and run them for and by workers. Capitalists promoted the opponents of socialists, and fascists emerged as this opposition. They began as violent gangs of nationalist thugs supported by capitalists to “protect businesses” and go after socialists. Liberals supported these fascists. So did social democrars once they gained electoral power. All of the mealy-mouthed reformers empowered fascists materially against socialists.

And that is how fascists developed, in a time of crisis for how to resolve the competing forces of imperialized liberalism and socialist organization. Their angle was to develop a hyper-nationalist program against the socialist one and (on paper) against the liberal one, to explain why the common person’s (Volk) conditions were degrading without actually materially addressing the capitalist system as it actually was, but through mythologies about scapegoated minorities, betrayal, and not doing capitalism well enough or for the interests of the people. Where they did have a material analysis it was in their expansionism, they understood how the imperialist equation looked, but instead of trying to destroy imperialism they just wanted to sit at its head.

And at every step of the way, socialists fought them. They were, and are, complete enemies.

Is the only remedy a more socialist organization?

There is no liberation without organization. And organization will not produce the outcomes we need without having a correct understanding and analysis of oppression and how to combat it. Therefore, we need socialist organizing.

This does not mean it is easy.

I admit I’m ignorant on the issue, and you seem to know: what are some examples of socialist organizations being the main force in stopping fascism?

WW2. Soviet Union inflicting more than 80 percent of losses + partisans in the Balkans freeing themselves. Italian partisans were also not given credit for their huge role in liberating Italy. Most resistance in fascist territory had a huge socialist contingent. Romania had a socialist movement that pulled off a coup during ww2 as the Soviets were making their push back to Berlin, saving a massive amount of lives.The socialists during the Spanish Civil War, although they were basically just Spanish Republicans + limited soviet aid fighting against half of Spain, and massive German and Italian forces, so they lost.

In Germany, the socialists fought the fascists but the liberals were more willing to form a coalition with the fascists than with the socialists.

And what about the cases of socialist fascism? Is the only remedy a more socialist organization?

Could you define what you mean by this? Because fascism is a specific thing that emerges within capitalism. There is no such thing as socialist fascism, as someone who has done a lot of learning on the history of fascism and socialism.

One thing I can say about the Zionists is that they’re honest. They’re wrong, but they’re honest.

It’s hard to respect anybody who, on the one hand, opposes Harris for her support of genocide, but on the other hand votes for her anyway.

everything that has happened so far has happened under a dem administration. 40+k deaths and endless displaced. Stop being delusional, dems are genocidal and you’re guilty too.

while Biden/Harris/Walz support Israel defending itself within its borders but don’t support genocide.

This needs to be a joke. Is Gaza part of Israel now?

Trump has said “finish it”, without elaborating AFAIK. Do you have evidence that he means “wipe out Gaza”?

while Biden/Harris/Walz support Israel defending itself within its borders but don’t support genocide.

They do support genocide. They’ve been supporting it this whole time. They have said they will continue to support it.

Buddy, I don’t even live in burgerland. However, it’s obvious to anybody with even a shred of intellectual honesty what dems and their supporters stand for.

As you ignored what I said, let me repeat.

You should be against genocide and vote against genociders. Harris is literally part of the administration doing this genocide and has been an active supporter of its strategies. She has been very clear in her support of Israel during genocide, as has nearly the entirety of the “lesser evil” (genocidal) Democratic Party.

So you don’t actually agree with them regarding Palestinian lives, you agree with Harris. Simply saying “ideas sound good” doesn’t mean you agree with them, even if you think they would be better. If your actions prevent ideas you think were good, like cessation of Palestinian genocide, then you don’t actually support said ideas.

I agree with them that Palestinians should be free, that Israel should stop the genocide, that America should stop supporting the genocide. And I agree that Donald Trump would be the worst

You would like to believe this in theory but clearly do not really think so. Otherwise, you would not be telling everyone to support the genocidal Biden-Harris administration.

And I agree that Donald Trump would be the worst possible candidate to put in charge of the executive branch of the US government.

We’ve had a Trump presidency and he didn’t start any genocides. The main genocide he continued was Obama’s targeting Yemen, but Trump deescalated it by comparison. We don’t need hypotheticals, we already know that, in action, your cabdidates are more bloodthirsty war criminals.

Though the entire premise is flawed. Maybe you should take a step back and ask what you are contributing to by normalizing genocide. By, instead of helping organize resistance, you are trying to sheepdog people back into the fold so they vote for genociders. Look at yourself in a mirror and reoeat those words.

I only disagree with two points. First, I do not agree that Kamala Harris is the same as Donald Trump, not on any issue.

Kamala Harris rarely takes any stances of her own, mostly just taking on others’ talking points. She then reverses course any old time with no consequences aside from the fact that nobody can name a single thing they like about her, There is nothing there to directly grasp onto rhetorically. You can have nothing to say about her policy positions with any confidence outside if her track record of tailing power and courting the right. California’s top cop just announced she would put a Republican in her cabinet, Lmao. Aren’t Republicans an existential threat, per your team-based logic?

But in action, we know she is lockstep with the Biden admin and the DNC was a dystopian nightmare of JOYOUS celebration of genociders (thank you Joe!) and Israel, though I repeat myself.

Second, I do not agree that voting for a nonviable third party in a national election will have any effect on Democrats or their policies.

Democrats have routinely courted the votes of people that otherwise refuse to vote for them based on specific issues. This does not mean that they will actually respond to every demand, but your belief is ahistorical. Have you not notice Dems moving right? They’re trying to peel off Republican voters. Do you know why they do that? Do you know how their strategists think of their “left”, such as it is? They know that they could gain votes from Republicans and think they already have your vote locked down. What are you going to do, vote third party? This little piece of illogic works on you to disempower yourself. They don’t have to do anything except vilify their opponent and you do the rest of the work!

You need to develop discipline if you are to do anything good electorally, let alone stop excusing genocide.

I agree with de la Cruz on more issues than I do with Harris. Healthcare, taxation, military spending, reparations, Indigenous sovereignty… Pretty much everything except those two points, so I’m voting for Harris because she’s better than Trump.

Is a candidate better when they can get away with genocide without your opposition? Y’all went straight to sleep after Biden was elected and are now excusing genocide.

I’m personally more partial to “I’m sorry I won’t sacrifice my trans friends’ lives to make myself feel morally superior,” but yours works too haha