We’re not sleepwalking into anything.
There’s an increasing number of people who are sprinting towards it at top speed, an increasing number of people willing to let it happen because they’re mad at Biden over Israel or upset that he’s not the embodiment of the perfect candidate, and then those of us who are blaring the warnings from our bullhorns, only to find that half the crowd is blaring right along with us and the other half has no interest in what we’re saying.
“Biden’s old and Israel is bad now, so clearly the obvious solution is to vote for a Trump dictatorship. Surely that’s the most common-sense solution and absolutely nothing can go wrong. The leopard certainly won’t eat my face, right? Right???” – an increasing number of independent and Democrat voters
Also, a lot of the media wants a horse race and wants their clicks, no matter the risk. And they keep bothsidering Biden and Donnie.
I believe it was actually CBS that openly admitted to this because of how profitable it is. Like it or not, Trump is correct in his statement that a lot of these news networks are raking in record profits by hanging on every word he says as if it were a biblical proclamation. News comapnies across the board are going to see huge hits to their bottom lines once he’s out of the public spotlight.
The party is dogshit at messaging and has no intention of even trying to get the votes of the people you described.
The principal concern at the moment seems to be preemptively finding a group to blame if Biden loses. Imagine if that energy and focus were put into trying to win votes.
TBH I would understand if he was smart, scheming and charismatic. Instead, they are rooting for a buffoon, an idiot and a failed businessman. He was even in power before, and they still want him back.
The folks who say never Biden are right wing operatives. Perhaps unwittingly in some cases, but I suspect many of the loudest voices don’t want to see any Democrat win and running down Biden is their best shot at that.
The folks who say never Biden are right wing operatives.
I wouldn’t be so sure on that.
Disclaimer: Admittedly, this is my own anecdotal experience, which should be given as much weight as any other anecdotal evidence from some rando on the internet. But I have talked to people who are saying exactly that. I haven’t heard any of the “he’s too old” bit, but I do know of independent voters who intend to hold their nose and vote for Trump even if they don’t like him because they’re letting their opinions on the Israel situation cloud their judgement. Granted, I live in MA and they live in right-leaning areas of the state so their protest vote for Trump won’t change a thing since MA is one of the bluest states in the country.
It’s the independent voters in states like Michigan that I’m worried about, because it won’t take many of them to flip some of those states red.
You clipped that to imply I said all of them when I absolutely didn’t. I also am an independent in Michigan. I can’t make promises but I’m seeing vehement enthusiasm for voting blue among the swing voters I know. Admittedly it’s anecdotal.
I don’t want to see any Democrat or Republican or anyone win that is beholden to private entities rather than the people.
It’s all a fuckin show and has been for over 100 years. It goes back further than that but at least we were mostly free of it prior to 1900.
You and me both. It’s a sad state of affairs that it’s not even an option. How we vote and the two party system is written into the fucking Constitution (not as such but the parties become inevitable) and we have to live with it. It’s supposed to be a living document reacting to changes in the times but that’s not possible right now.
I get not wanting either party. I’m certainly not beholden to either of them. But we are stuck. And we can fight one battle at a time to slowly move things in the direction they need to go even if it’s one step forward and two back, or we can give up and just find a way to live with whatever chaos and injustice others choose for us. Because right now there just isn’t another option. Maybe some day if we fight hard enough and we win often enough we can win better options for the future, but they probably won’t be for us. The road is long and the progress is slow.
Ahh, yes. Just completely disregard any criticism of the Democratic Party as “right wing operatives.” It couldn’t possibly be that they abuse their position as the only other viable option in order to further their plutocratic goals, and the people who have been complaining about it for decades are simply tired of hearing “it’s not the right time” ad nauseum.
You know what will convince people who barely managed to vote for Hillary in 2016 and Biden in 2020 to vote against their conscience yet again? Knowing that they’ll be instantly blamed anyway when the majority doesn’t get their way? Insults and baseless accusations.
Criticize away. I’m no democrat and I have no love for them. I get into disagreements with those on the left about various things I disagree with. But at the end of the day I can work with democrats and I can’t with fascists. Defending freedom and the constitution against tyranny is something I swore an oath to do, and I will vote for nothing but democrats as long as fascism looms here.
If you’re advocating voting for anyone other than Biden, you are a de facto right wing operative. That may not be the intention, but that’s absolutely the result. It’s not an insult, it’s simply math.
There is no viable alternative to Biden for the 2024 election. Not a single one. Push Biden and the Democratic Party left, don’t campaign against them unless you want the GOP to gain more control. That’s unfortunately the reality of a FPTP system. Something like ranked choice voting would be a great way to change that. Guess which party is actively fighting against increasing representation and voting access? The very same people you’re electing when you sit out or vote 3rd party. If someone can explain to me how Biden losing the election is a net positive for the country I’m all ears.
How is protecting the queer community, women’s rights, and the civil rights of PoC, voting against your conscience exactly?
@MagicShel I know this is hard to understand, but genocide affects our decision making, and some of us would even prefer our country to fall to complete ruin than be aparty to it. Never again isn’t “never again unless it would be politically expedient”
Do you understand what I mean? That there are lines that can never, ever be crossed?
Do you understand why I’d never be able to look in the mirror again after that?
So you think that the default is no genocide? No genocide is not an option here. Our realistic options are:
A) genocide
B) genocide + fascism at home
Not choosing defaults to B
We aren’t committing genocide. We oppose genocide in Ukraine, and we would allow it under Trump. The fact that you’d be fine letting this country burn doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. We can’t help anyone in that state. And a lot of us want to help.
If you think Trump is going to bring a halt to genocide you’re delusional. Vote Trump in and the genocide will continue or escalate. The GOP will escalate persecution of your countrymen and will further dismantle our democracy.
All the shit Trump did, locking kids in cages, rampant corruption, constant stream of lies, bungled foreign policy, stochastic terrorism. None of that crosses the line for you.
Or is it that you’re more about the symbolism of your vote than its real world effects?
Look, I will hold my nose and vote for Biden in the general, just like last time. But don’t pretend that he had any business running again.
I’m not gonna vote for anyone because I’m way too left to agree with a lot of their politics, I’m just gonna vote against Trump. It doesn’t matter who is running against him, I’m not letting that dipshit win again. Or the republican party in general at this point, they’ve gotten too crazy.
Centrist City here I plod
I said before, and I’ll say again, Biden is this generation’s Jimmy Carter. If the GOP were to have put forth any competent candidate in 2020, I think Biden would’ve lost by a landslide. Same goes in 2024. Not that I agree with her policies, but given the current political climate, I think the advantage would go to Nikki Hailey if she were to get the nod. But if the choices are (A) Donald Trump, and (B)…it doesn’t matter what B is. Go with B.
The race seems to be narrowing on Her with her Koch dollars, Ramaswamy as the wild card candidate, and Trump because the man’s ego is too large to leave the race even if he ends up in jail.
Oddly enough, that’s all we ask for. Vote with your heart in the Primary. Be as passionate for change as you can be. But in the General, vote with your brain and for the Democrat. Tell yourself it’s a vote for the lesser evil. Tell yourself that any vote besides the winner of the Democratic Primary, whether that be Biden or somebody else, is a vote for Trump, just like it was in 2016 and 2020. And no matter how much you have to hold your breath while voting, make sure that in November of next year, that vote goes to the Democrat, whoever he is. That’s all we’re asking.
The best thing about Biden and Israel, is he’s doing nothing different than any other president since 1948. Trump was the one who moved the American Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem ffs.
He’s actually kinda better on Israel than previous presidents, he’s been negotiating the release of palestinians being held hostage in Israel, and has secured Gaza the right to access their own natural resources, which Israel had been blockading.
Almost like he’s actually doing the thing the left accused him of disregarding and using the US’ good terms with israel and israel’s dependency on the US as a negotiating tool to keep things as clean as possible without Israel going completely off the handle and doing something like firing a nuke out of feeling completely isolated.
It’s one of the things I really don’t understand about the argument. I can understand why people are upset with Biden, but yet yadda yadda yadda over the fact that Trump is literally running on a platform of being exponentially worse to them. Tell them they’re cutting off their own nose to spite their face, and they respond by sharpening the blade.
I am throwing in the towel for now. I am hetro white uppermiddle class male of prot background and can quote the Bible better than most preachers. I am in zero danger. It is everyone else is who is fucked. The rest of this country can’t even bother to vote to save themselves from firing squads.
The funny thing with an outgroup is that it keeps growing. They’ll find something they don’t like about you.
Biden’s old and Israel is bad now, so clearly the obvious solution is to vote for a Trump dictatorship.
It’s full Bernie Bro logic too. Bernie didn’t get the nomination, so we’re voting for Trump.
These people don’t care about policies, only personalities.
