If you ask me, the point isn’t to not vote for Biden, but rather to show him that’s vote for him isn’t automatic just because the opponent is Trump. Maybe if Biden listened when a lot of people said he was too old and lot people said don’t give Israel weapons used to kill women and children he wouldn’t be in this predicament. It’s funny how the leftists in do the same thing they always do that only works for millionaires work and then get mad at the working class when they don’t vote for them.
The Democrats chose Biden in 2019, 2020. The thing is, the Democratic party is, itself, right wing. Neoliberalism is pretty far right, it’s just not crazypants far right than the Republican party.
If you’re EU centrist, you don’t have a voice in Washington. Heck, the Democratic party is looking for ways to oust Occasio-Cortez and Sanders, no matter how popular their positions might be.
Don’t vote for Biden, rather vote against the GOP. Any vote for a Republican is a vote to end democracy and let them rule as autocrats. Any vote against the Republican party (specifically your one vote for the next popular guy – that is, the Democrat) is a vote to hold onto the US’ meager democratic features.
If you’re wanting to make a statement, your vote for officials is not where to make it, no matter how fervent your feelings about it. Elections are where you get to choose between King Log and King Heron. (And Heron will eat all the frogs.) Make your grievances known through other activism.
Engage in mutual aid now, so that you don’t have to engage in sabotage and resistance against an overwhelming foe later.
If you want to make a point your vote in the only place to do it. Sure you can march in the streets for party change, but if you are going to vote for the person anyways you won’t be taken seriously. The point of all this is to show Dems that a Biden vote isn’t guaranteed like they think it is.
As I said, your vote isn’t for the Democrats, it’s against the Republicans.
The first amendment right to petition our representatives for the redress of grievances is a right with no teeth. Our representatives cannot listen and retain their career. This is an example of regulatory capture and government failure.
But activism is not just about sending messages to officials, rather it’s about resisting, whether causing inconvenience through civil disobedience to organizing to outright sabotage (such as blowing up oil pipelines ). If you cant participate in civil action yourself, support those who do. Materially, if possible, but even thank you letters and cookies can help.
The US is dying. But we can hang on until the GOP dies first, or we can let them take over and burn out in a blaze of facism and war, in which case you can be sure Palestine will be razed to the ground.
In the meantime, the Biden administration is arranging for air drops and trying to secure an armistice, no matter what a dick Biden is, the White House seems aware the clime has change regarding universal tolerance of the Palestinian holocaust.
That’s the problem, though, isn’t it? Biden is expecting people to vote for him just because he’s not Trump. And the fact of the matter is, if the goal was to defeat Trump, Biden wouldn’t run. So why is it selfish not to vote for Biden, but not selfish for Biden not to run and let another candidate with a much better chance of defeating Trump run on the ballot?
but not selfish for Biden not to run
How is that an argument to not vote against Trump?
This is your argument, tell me if I"m wrong: “I will not vote against Trump because Biden acted selfishly.”
To point out the obvious, nobody prevented anyone else from running for president. Several people did and Biden has beaten them all. How can you expect someone to beat Trump who can’t beat Biden?
Did voting for Biden stop Trump this last election? How many times are we supposed to vote Democrat against our own interests and better judgment until Trump is successfully stopped? What about when Trump stops being the face of fascism, an ideology and not a man, and the fascists prop up another candidate? Will it always be “neoliberalism or fascism” every election from here until fascism wins anyway because neoliberalism doesn’t work for the majority of people either?
Did voting for Biden stop Trump this last election?
Um, yes? It didn’t stop Trump from breathing, but it stopped him from being president this term. Even if it somehow eliminated Trump, there is always the next Trump. There is no point where we can stop fighting to preserve past victories, even as we fight for new ones.
How many times are we supposed to vote Democrat against our own interests
None. Voting Democrat is always in your interests. (At least until something major changes) Voting corrupt Democrats out in primaries is even moreso. It would be nice if we lived in a system that can support more than two parties, but we don’t.
Will it always be “neoliberalism or fascism” every election
That’s why we fight to take over the Democratic party. Every obstacle to defeating Democrats in primaries has a corresponding obstacle to winning a general with a third party candidate. Winning as a third party is both more difficult, and more risky.
You want a shortcut, but there isn’t one.
This “they’ll win anyway” is some miserly nihilistic take - we’ve won against the Nazis before we’ll win again.
“how many times are as supposed to vote to prevent the fascists from gaining power?”
Until you can no longer physically vote.
You are part of a society that still allows you to politically organise around your beliefs, so get involved in your local politics and help bring your vision of a better future to more people - change doesn’t happen by itself.
Join a union. Get out there and make it happen.
Yes. Exactly that. Our federal elections have been corrupt since the 1800s. The Republican effort to curtail the Democratic party and erect an autocratic state started in the 1960s (though there were earlier efforts in the 1920s and 1930s).
I get that it sucks that the US is not at all what we were promised it would be, but letting the Republican party destroy the Democratic party is only going to make things way, way worse for the majority of Americans. And civil war and its aftermath is going to take decades (if not over a century) to resolve.
The French Revolution started in 1789. The Third Republic was founded in 1870, between which the guillotines had to be rolled out several times, and Napoleon had to go to war with the rest of Europe. When the two-state system falls in the US, you can expect chaos and bloodshed for the rest of your life, including kids prostituting themselves on the streets for food (what was seen in post-Soviet eastern bloc states after the USSR fell in the early 1990s). It’s going to be grisly for anyone who doesn’t flee abroad, and for some who do.
As per Bertrand Russell, war doesn’t decide who is right, only who is left. And this includes civil war.
How many times are we supposed to vote Democrat against our own interests and better judgment until Trump is successfully stopped?
You’re not voting against your own interests. When mum asks you if you want burnt steak or raw chicken for dinner, you don’t say “ice cream cake” and refuse to make a decision. You pick the burnt steak. Picking burnt steak is not doing anything to make the chance of getting ice cream steak less. But if you don’t pick the burnt steak, you’re getting half and half and you’re getting salmonella.
The point is to vote for him but also maybe not vote for him?
Doesn’t seem like that’s much of a point to me.
The US is dabbling with fascism from many different angles. GOP is all about US fascism. The Tankies support foreign fascism that’s in opposition to the US. Rightwing extremists say Biden is far left. Tankies say Biden is right wing.
Are you so upset over Gaza that you want the same thing to happen to US cities? This is a possible outcome of allowing authoritarians to run your country.
Am I upset that women and children are being murdered? Yes. I guess you’re ssying I’m supposed to be fine with that. Sorry, I can’t be blind to atrocities just because they aren’t happening in my backyard. Seems like you are. You know that you can be against Trump AND murder, right?
Sure it’s fine to be upset, but being upset 100% of the time means you’re vulnerable to emotional manipulation and become disconnected from reality. Trump supporters also have good reason to be upset about current economic conditions, don’t they? But they’re upset at the wrong people because they’re blasted with emotion non-stop and don’t ever think about how things are.
The political leadership of Hamas are billionaires living in luxury in Qatar while their people die. The local leadership in Gaza living in underground bunkers that keep them safe while the people above them die. They use religion to justify their actions. Like all authoritarian regimes they are very good at propaganda to keep their population in line and to gain support from foreigners.
This fascist organization launched an attack on October 7, 2023 where they went into villages and murdered women and children. How upset does that make you? Apparently not that much, which is concerning. The goal of this attack was to start the war you’re seeing play out now. During that attack they took hostages to force Israel into a ground campaign. Ground campaigns in a densely populated area is known by everyone to result in the highest amount of civilian casualties. Hamas knew this, it’s what they wanted. Because they can use this to create effective propaganda.
The emotions you’re feeling is proof of the effectiveness of Hamas’s plan. They made this happen to make you sympathetic to them. And because of how effective this has been they will likely do it it again.
In a few decades time when this all happens again, you’ll be saying the same things to the younger generation as I’m saying to you now. This cycle won’t end until we have a generation that can see they’re being manipulated. Unfortunately you’re not the generation that will end the cycle of violence. Maybe Generation Z+1 will be the ones that won’t fall for the propaganda. If we survive that long.
Make your own decision: see the facts not the talk. Biden in Europe is considered full right or at least center-right. And we have fascists all over Europe.
Biden in Europe is considered full right or at least center-right.
This is talk, not facts. Yes if you’re in a bubble where everyone is talking the same way, it might feel like a fact, but that’s all just talk and feelings. In the end all of politics is just talk despite what the ideologues might tell you.
It’s funny how the leftists in do the same thing they always do that only works for millionaires work and then get mad at the working class when they don’t vote for them.
Will you please phrase this another way? For some reason I am unable to parse it.
What I mean is, it’s funny how Leftists support millionaires/billionaires and fuck over the working class and then are surprised that people don’t like it. If we had a progressive candidate people would be happier, even if they don’t know it yet. Bernie Sanders tried that and was defeated when the Dems made sure Hillary won despite everyone saying they wouldn’t vote for her. It’s time to stop repeating the mistakes of the past.
