The American social safety net fails again. At least this time it was mostly contained.
Condolences to those who will remember him.
No shit. We had plenty of guns when I was a kid (52 now), even AR-15s and the like, and this wasn’t a normal thing until after Columbine.
I’d hold off on my manifesto, :), but mental health has taken a nosedive in this country. It’s far, far worse than kids can imagine. Fox News, Facebook, the internet, etc. has poisoned our collective brains and discourse.
I’m 38, and yeah it’s seriously fucked. I keep saying this and people still want to plug their ears and scream “it’s the guns!”.
I’m a prime example, I have ADHD and hardcore insomnia, and I got laid off a few months ago, my health insurance just ended. In order to see a psychiatrist it’s gonna cost me $300 out of pocket for the visit, and then generic Ambien is like $120 for 60 pills. I got letters that say I could get health insurance via the COBRA Act of 1985, but it’s SEVEN HUNDRED AND THIRTY DOLLARS A MONTH. Healthcare.gov keeps playing commercials that say “enroll now and you can get health insurance for as low as $10/month!”. I went on there to look and it’s only available for 2024 right now and they want to know your income for 2024. I put in 80k and they said I wasn’t eligible, I put in 40k and it said it was gonna cost $350/month.
My dad is 73 and he constantly has to fight with insurance and the pharmacy to get his Ambien as well.
It’s absolutely ridiculous.
Losing your insurance/job is one of those situations that they’ll enroll you early
That’s brutal, and I’m very sorry to hear that. No one should have to struggle to find help, especially for stuff like that.
I think this whole system is stupid, even from a business sense. If you want quality labour, “happy employees” are the way to go. If you prevent people from getting much wanted/needed help, you’ll have a lot less of those “happy employees”. You’ll also have fewer taxes being paid, less money being spent, fewer people attending events and buying non-essential things, etc. The current set-up makes no sense to me. Instead of imporving anything, let’s just keep continuing to make things worse and then complain that society is getting worse. That will totally fix things. It hasn’t worked for the past couple of decades, but it will totally magically change tomorrow. Assholes.
I hope things get much better for you and your father soon. Y’all deserve MUCH better than this.
almost 10% of your income!? fuck the “hyper socialist” Germany has 6% from my taxes
If it puts your mind at ease at all, crime (violent and otherwise) had been on a decline from 1993 until 2016 and while it has risen since 2016, it still hasn’t hit pre-'93 levels last I saw. Furthermore despite what you’d expect, those AR-15s are responsible for less than 500 (all rifles) of our 60,000 gun deaths, which is 0.833333333333% of our gun deaths. In fact, mass shootings account for less than 0.2% of our gun deaths per year. So, I mean “any is too much” yes, but it isn’t near as bad as it seems. source
I think what terrifies people about mass shootings is that they’re random. They just target random people (or God forbid fucking children).
I mean violence is obviously bad but most of the time it’s contained in certain areas of town, and so long as you’re not mixed up with the wrong people it’s probably not a major concern for most people.
So when they see people get shot up at the mall or at a concert or at school they think “shit that could be me or my kids”
But yeah you’re 100% right and they are blown completely out of proportion.
this wasn’t a normal thing until after Columbine.
Things that are relatively new, circa Columbine
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the 24-hour news cycle
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rage-farming as a genre of syndicated media (think: Limbaugh, Hannity, InfoWars)
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selling fear becomes huge moneymaker for opinion programmers (Limbaugh, Hannity, Carlson, etc)
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politics as a staple on social media comment threads
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offshore groups (like troll farms, etc) posing as domestic political actors, targeting particular demographics
Ready access to guns is of course a problem, but it’s probably made worse when all those folks with ready access to guns are bathed in fear and loathing 24/7 by millionaires making lots of money telling them things to make them or their families afraid or angry. Just a thought
The vast majority of mentally ill people are not violent. The idea that mental illness is largely responsible for the prevalence of mass shooters contributes to the stigma already attached to mental illness.
Know what did happen shortly before Columbine? Reagan dissembled our mental health infrastructure.
I was a teen in the late 80’s. Hell, I thought homelessness was a normal thing I simply hadn’t heard of until MTv started flogging it.
And if the mass shooting didn’t start post-Columbine…? LOL, we didn’t have that word in our lexicon.
FFS, we used to able to buy shotguns in the auto parts store. But suddenly, guns and “easy access” are the problem?
Why don’t you folks start a fight you have a chance of actually winning? Shut down the right-wing propaganda, hard, yesterday.
And while we’re at it, I’d kill for a solid study on how many killers, including suicides, are left/right politically. We both know how that’s gonna play out.
Sounds like America shouldn’t be selling guns until Republicans have finished curing mental health issues.
Sucks that he got to that point, but props for not going through with his plan.
This is almost uplifting. Like, it’s terrible the man was suffering so much, but it’s admirable that he chose the better of the two options he was giving himself. That probably makes me sound like a terrible person.
I don’t think that sounds terrible at all. We can all agree, I think, that we’d rather this whole situation not happen at all, but of the two cases, one with one dead by their own hands, and another case with who knows how many dead at the same person’s hands, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with saying you’re happy it was the former and not the latter.
Terrible would be saying he deserved it. Or putting someone in that position. Or a variety of other things, but it’s not being relieved at a lower death toll.
I didn’t kill a bunch of people today, either, so props to me, too, I guess…
You probably weren’t at the end of your mental and emotional rope, with what seemed like no other outs. Context matters.
You don’t know me. McDonald’s fucked up my nuggets order this morning so now I’m a man without anything to live for
Sounds like the good guy with the gun was the bad guy with the gun this time.
A message saying, “I am not a killer, I just want to get into the caves,” was written on a wall of the women’s bathroom where the man was found lying on the floor, according to Garfield County Sheriff Lou Vallario. Nearby, officers found a handgun and explosive devices, some real and some fake, he added.
Geez :(
There are some special caves as park of the amusement park that you can take tours. The caves reference makes sense.
I mean, sort of makes sense? I assume with the overkill in firepower, he expected to meet armed resistance. Way more than a security guard would actually pose irl. So that I can at least get my head around.
But if he wanted to sneak into the actual caves like the phrasing would suggest, why die in the bathroom?
And a bathroom for women. There’s an inappropriate comparison here, somewhere.
Charles Whitman — Texas Sniper. Killed 14 people in 1966. Autopsy found a brain tumor pressing the amygdala, which presumably caused uncontrollable “fight or flight” response.
I’ve been wondering if a brain tumor was the Maine mass shooters problem as well. We’ll probably never know
In my neurology class Whitman was the only case of the tumor clearly being a major driving factor.
I’m not saying the class was entirely comprehensive, or that the other cases were not medically-driven. The other cases we studied were psychologically driven (mental disorders) rather than physiological (e.g. tumor/cancer/head-trauma). I just wanted to say the tumor case might not be as likely as one might think.
Thanks for your input. Where are you going to school/did you go to school? How did you like your neurology class?
Sidenote: I hope that someday we are able to look at most psychological disorders as physiological disorders. I feel like more people would get the help that they need, (and society would be more accepting of it) if we looked at it through that lense instead of thinking of it like something people have complete control over by themselves. The brain is another organ, after all
Not pointing any fingers at anyone directly, but it is noticable to me that questions like that don’t seem to come up when the murderer isn’t white.
Most mass shooters are white males, tho. It’s pretty rare for them to be anything other than that
And with the effortless access to firearms provided in the US, choosing the “fight” option was easy.
That’s a pretty big possibility, hardly would call it a presumption. Either way, humans are too frail and unpredictable to have limitless access to such killing machines.
Probably had nothing to do with a tumor:
Whitman’s father was raised in an orphanage in Savannah, Georgia, and described himself as a self-made man. His wife, Margaret, was 17 years old at the time they wed. The marriage of Whitman’s parents was marred by domestic violence; Whitman’s father was an admitted authoritarian who provided for his family but demanded near perfection from all of them. He was known to be physically and emotionally abusive towards his wife and children.
This dude in Maine had tried to get a silencer. Wonder how much worse it would have been if everyone didn’t hear the reports and start running.
This dude in Maine had tried to get a silencer. Wonder how much worse it would have been if everyone didn’t hear the reports and start running.
Hard to say. It’s not like the movies. With the firearm he had (.308 with ~14-16" barrel), a silencer/suppressor only brings the volume down from “instant tinnitus” to “still loud enough to cause permanent hearing damage”. It’s far from silent. I’d never thought about it until now but I wonder if a silencer/suppressor could have increased surviveability. When people heard gunshots at volumes they would expect, they might be less disoriented. Verses the muzzle flash and concussion that comes from what he was shooting (basically a semi-auto flash bang).
Hmm, wonder why they are illegal in the first place then. Oh yeah it’s so other people can hear the report.
Probably had nothing to do with the tumor
BRUH, this was his suicide note:
I do not quite understand what it is that compels me to type this letter. Perhaps it is to leave some vague reason for the actions I have recently performed. I do not really understand myself these days. I am supposed to be an average reasonable and intelligent young man. However, lately (I cannot recall when it started) I have been a victim of many unusual and irrational thoughts. These thoughts constantly recur, and it requires a tremendous mental effort to concentrate on useful and progressive tasks.[43]
In his note, Whitman went on to request an autopsy be performed on his remains after he was dead to determine if there had been a biological cause for his actions.
People in the 60’s didnt just say “do an autopsy on me” unless something was severely wrong. There was little to no public understanding of neurology, the general public wouldn’t even think to guess that a brain tumor could play such a role.
And not like Whitman suspected it a little bit; before the incident he went to many doctors for help. This was his note in his journal
“I talked with a Doctor once for about two hours and tried to convey to him my fears that I felt overwhelming violent impulses. After one visit, I never saw the Doctor again, and since then have been fighting my mental turmoil alone, and seemingly to no avail.”
He talked to friends about it and nobody would take him seriously because they just saw him as a respectable person with overblown concerns. His case is part of Neurology classes in Texas universities!
None of this constitutes medical evidence. It reads to me like bullshit conjured up after the fact to assuage a scared public by saying that there was something physically wrong with this man, when in fact he just wanted to hurt people because he was fucked up from years of trauma.
